Episode 304 - "Of Lost Things"

The Official Outlander Podcast Episode 304 - Of Lost Things

Drink of the week: Johnnie Walker Green Label

Toni: Hi everyone. We’re doing this a little differently this year. You won’t be able to hear the episode in the background of the podcast, so in order to sync up the show with what we’re saying, you should pause now and hit play as soon as the main titles start. [0:14]

[0:17] Toni: Hi, I’m Toni Graphia and I’m here with

Matt: Matt Roberts

Toni: And we’re watching episode 304, “Of Lost Things.” Um, our whisky tonight, it’s a special one. It’s the first time we’ve done a blended malt scotch whisky, and in honor of the blended episode that has both Jamie and Claire’s stories in it, Johnnie Walker Green Label. It’s four whiskies, two of them were our favorites, Caol Ila and Talisker and it was a birthday gift from Ben McGinnis who’s been with us since the beginning of Outlander and is an associate producer this year, so just a little shout out for Ben there. Um

Matt: Shout out because he gave you whisky.

[0:57] Toni: Yeah, well, anybody that gives me whisky, hey. (laughs) Um, this is uh, this is the first episode I’ve written this season and uh, for a long time it was called “Helwater,” because it’s based on the chapters of the book that, that start at Helwater, and um, but, Helwater, as usual, Matthew B. Roberts uh, made a title change. Uh, he’s changed practically all the titles this season, which I tease him about, but I have to admit, uh, this, this one was better than just Helwater, uh.

Matt: I think the big argument on this was do we add ellipses to the shot or not?

Toni: (laughing) Yes. He read um, my first draft of the script and he, and he goes, “Well, here’s your title. Of lost things,” because there’s a, a uh, line of dialogue where Jamie says that uh, St. Anthony’s the patron saint of lost things, so yeah, the big, the big uh, the big debate was do we do ellipses, dot dot dot “Of Lost Things”? Or just “Of Lost Things,” and we went with no ellipses after everyone in the office, I think, voted. Um, anyway, it’s, you’ll see, I think you’ll get it when you watch this episode about just how many things are lost.

Matt: Well they’ve already, they’ve already watched it.

[2:12] Toni: Well, that’s right. They’ve already watched it. They’re watching it again. I hope.

Matt: Yeah, they’re watching it for the fifth time

Toni: Thank you for, for, for bearing with us here.

Matt: Yeah

Toni: Uh, we open with, you know we call, we always call this in the writers’ room, we call this the war room scene where, where Brianna, Roger, and Claire were uh, had this big bulletin board, kind of like a detective board in a police precinct where Claire’s looking for Jamie after Roger’s you know, let her know that he survived Culloden. She wants to know what happened to him, and this is at the Wakefield house.

Matt: And this is, uh, the first episode we see um, Mr. Richard Rankin and uh, Sophie Skelton.

[2:57] Toni: Yes, they’re, uh, we see a little bit of spark here between them, for the first time maybe.

Matt: Did you ever notice that uh, uh Richard Rankin and Sophie Skelton have um, uh, like superhero names?

Toni: Um, they do kind of sound like that. Wait, it’s R, R and S, S.

Matt: Yeah, they are, yeah. I, I, I think that they could easily play um, some kind of superhero team. I’m just saying, if anybody wants to do a spinoff.

Toni: I, I think there, there might be a spinoff in our future here.

Matt: Yeah. I think Richard and Sophie would actually go for it.

Toni: They’re, they’re very cute together

Matt: They are

Toni: Um, here’s where Claire, wondering where Jamie is and here’s, here’s where he is.

Matt: This uh, this, this particular estate is Gosford Estate. Um, south of Edinburgh. And um, Toni, when you did, uh, the episode last year

Toni: Yes, I was supervising the episode where, at the Versailles stables, where the Duke of Sandringham is showing the horses to Jamie and we shot at this same location, which is a gorgeous gorgeous house

Matt: But you used, you used the back of this for the, the back of this

Toni: We used the front

Matt: No, this is the front.

Toni: This is the front?

Matt: You used the back

Toni: Ooooh

Matt: No no, this, for this you used the front.

Toni: (laughing)

Matt: For last season you used the back

[4:24] Toni: Ahh.

Matt: Yeah. Oh my god, Toni

Toni: They all, they all blend together. We, we’ve, well, we did call this our, we called this our Downton Abbey scene. Uh, I happen to be a big Downton fan and I love the idea of showing you know, uh, a reveal of Jamie as just one of the servants. I love how on Downton they line up in the front of the house when people arrive and we thought it would be cool to show Jamie um, that here’s where he is. We, we, we last saw him of course in Matt’s episode um, “All Debts Paid,” when he was coming from Ardsmuir prison and John Grey gave him his freedom. Uh, not complete freedom because he’s, he’s somewhat…

Matt: Like we said, he, he, he gave him as, as much freedom as he could. And this is it.

Toni: Right. He’s gonna work at Helwater estate, he’s gonna be in much much better situation than his fellow prisoners who were shipped off god knows where to be indentured servants, but, it’s still a prison, you know, it’s still a prison nonetheless and it’s, Jamie’s not a free man. He’s gonna work for these, these rich people, um

Matt: This is Rupert Vansittart, I believe that’s how you pronounce his name, um, who

Toni: Lord Dunsany

Matt: Lord, yeah, he uh, who, I think he does such a great job of, um, you know he, both, he respects Jamie in a way, you know

Toni: He does

Matt: He respects him as a soldier, he respects him as a man, um, but he also, you know, he’s not going to free him and, and let him run away, but

[6:04] Toni: No, he lost his son in the war and, even though Jamie fought on the opposite side of that war, he says he respects men who fight what they believe in and so, I think we like him right off the bat

Matt: Yeah

Toni: Jamie likes him. And he mentions the children he, he’s lost, and as we know, he lost Faith, and he lost Brianna, even though she’s alive he didn’t get to ever meet her or raise her and there’s a lot of pain around that.

(silence)

[6:51] Matt: I like that, it, he, he gives him, he gives him a little, and then he takes a little back.

Toni: Yeah. (laughing) This is cute. This is where we start to know that Brianna really likes Roger. She’s teasing him about, you know, Fiona, who was flirting with him a little, uh, in the earlier scene and..

Matt: She’s playful

Toni: Yeah. She, she looks beautiful in that shot right there. (laughing) Roger

Matt: Ha, I love Richard in this. He’s so playful and charming, his little, his hair messed by the wind and

Toni: Yeah. And we wanted to plant right here, because we know that Brianna later, you know, has, has certain talents in engineering and mechanical stuff and that Frank perhaps taught her how to, you know, work on cars, and, uh, she’s not your typical, you know, girl of the ‘60s, she’s, she’s very capable.

[8:01] Matt: Yeah, they’re very, they’re, they’re good together, they have a nice playful chemistry.

Toni: Yeah. And Jamie, one of the great things is he’s back with horses, that he loves so much, I mean, he’s always had a love of horses and so for him, this is the best part of being at Helwater is he gets to um, be around horses. He’s got fresh air and sunshine, he’s out of prison, so…

Matt: Manure

Toni: He’s making, he’s making the best of it

Matt: He loves a good, uh, pile of manure

Toni: (laughing) He loves shoveling manure. And here is where we meet Lady Geneva and, uh, she’s played by Hannah James, who just did an amazing job. I mean, she was the perfect, perfect Geneva. And um, she is aristocratic…

Matt: She is really good

Toni: She’s, she’s very uh, entitled. Um, none of the grooms want to ride with her cause she’s such a B, a B-word. Um.

Matt: She um, she really owned it. And that’s what I love about it.

Toni: She did

Matt: She, she wasn’t worried about um, people liking her, in a sense

Toni: Right

[9:05] Matt: This is, uh, Tanya Reynolds who plays uh, Isobel, who Toni: Yeah, Geneva’s sister

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And, um..

Matt: I, I think Tanya does such a nice job.

Toni: Oh, she does, she, she’s really really likeable

Matt: She’s really really good

Toni: And, we wanted to find a way to establish right away that, that Jamie likes her and she likes him and that, you know, saying that she loves horses but they should be free, they’re meant to be free is, is a metaphor that Jamie understands in that, he doesn’t have his freedom and she’s basically saying, “It’s a shame when magnificent creatures can’t be free,” and right away they bond. It’s a bit of a mislead because, for those who haven’t read the books, we almost wanted to plant that maybe these two were gonna get together or find, you know, find something together.

Matt: Yeah

Toni: Uh, but the book readers know what’s coming.

[10:03] Matt: What I love here, this scene is where she, she knows that Jamie knows John Grey and she knows him well, but it, it’s like a schoolgirl crush, it’s…

Toni: Yeah

Matt: …”Hey, tell me a little bit about him so I know more,” so…

Toni: Yeah she, she’s in love with John Grey and, sorta, she, she’s sussing out the situation. Like, “Give me the scoop on John Grey!”

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And Jamie’s like, “Oh man, you don’t wanna go there.”

Matt: Yeah

Toni: “He’s a, he’s a, he loves his soldiering.”

Matt: (laughing) Yeah

Toni: (laughing) He’s trying to, to let her down easy

Matt: Yeah, steer her, to steer, “Go this way, don’t go that way.”

Toni: (laughing) Yeah

[10:45] Toni: Uh, now Claire’s been basically gone for awhile now. She visited, you know, Scotland for, you know, with, with Brianna and, it’s been awhile since she’s been back. They’re, they’re wondering where she is. “Are you ever coming home?” (chuckles)

Matt: And, I love that you put the, uh, the Scottish flag right above her head just to let everybody know she’s in Scotland. (laughs)

Toni: Yeah (laughing) That’s actually the same Scottish flag, I believe, that she looked at um, during um, the rent episode

Matt: Yeah

Toni: When she was visiting with, with Frank, when she was visiting Reverend Wakefield and she learned a little bit about Culloden and Scottish history. Um.

Matt: This is the one we use, uh, also uh, uh, well, you know, all in season two, too Toni: Yeah. And we’ve, we very much wanted to portray that, you know, she’s torn, she’s torn between trying to find Jamie again, but she has a responsibility back home. She has patients, she’s very dedicated to her work, as we know, Claire has this passion for medicine. And we wanted to put uh, we wanted to put her, the squeeze play on her. You know, we wanted, uh, you know, to show that she has an important life back home that she needs to get back to.

(silence)

[12:19] Matt: This is uh, Ellesmere.

Toni: This is Lord Ellesmere, who’s set to marry Lady Geneva.

Matt: Yeah, James Stewart, who plays Ellesmere, um, it was tough to, to, you know, you wanna separate um, you know, Dunsany and, and Ellesmere. You wanna make different people, you wanna, you know, make sure they come across completely, you know, as, as

Toni: Right. But, you know

Matt: And, and you know, in a way, not creepy.

Toni: No, I mean, this was the times, you know, this is what you did back then. You’d marry your daughter off to someone rich

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And uh, we played it a little bit that, you know, they might have had some debt over their heads here at Helwater, and marrying your, your, you know, beautiful daughter off to someone wealthy was the thing to do, so. But she, you know, she’s not that thrilled, as you can see, about marrying this older guy

Matt: I think that’s where she set her sights on, on the groom

Toni: Oh yeah

Matt: Yeah. Uh oh

Toni: I know. (laughs) Ahh, we, we came up with this device, if I believe, the drawing of straws, uh, for who would have to ride, uh, with

Matt: You mean, it’s not in the book

Toni: Yeah, I don’t think that that was in the book

Matt: No, I think it was the, the Greeks came up with drawing straws (laughing)

Toni: Ahh. I thought, I thought we made it up. No, I’m kidding. Yes, but the drawing of straws, now Jamie has to go on this ride with her, which is the last thing he wants

(silence)

[13:53] Toni: Oh yeah, that, this is

Matt: I think um, Hannah, I can’t remember where she grew up, but I know she

Toni: Virginia

Matt: She, she rides horses, um, so she was very, she’s very, she’s an accomplished uh, equestrian, yeah

Toni: Yeah, she grew up riding. Yeah, she grew up riding horses, but she actually took some lessons in riding sidesaddle for this episode

Matt: Well sidesaddle’s different than what is, yeah, yeah. But she was very comfortable around the horses and it shows. It’s it, they’re, and they’re, obviously we know Sam’s very comfortable around horses. It makes these kinds of shots, um, and when I say easier to do, it,it,it makes them, um, you can, you can do more takes, you can get more out of them, because when you have people who are not comfortable, you know, you just get less time on screen, on camera.

Toni: Right, yeah

(silence)

[14:56] Toni: Now in the book, uh, I believe she rides into a river

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And falls off her horse, uh, “falls off” on purpose

Matt: “Falls,” uh, Toni’s using quote fingers, air quotes for that

Toni: Yeah, air quotes. “Falls off” her horse. Uh, however, water’s freezing in Scotland and uh, which has foiled many episodes where we had water scenes because we just can’t throw our actors, uh, in the freezing water. Um, so we decided to change it to a mud, a mud

Matt: Yeah, and it’s not that we can’t do it once, it’s that, it’s that we have to do multiple takes

Toni: Right

Matt: So, when you’re there for an, you know, two hours doing this over and over and over again, it becomes actually a, a health issue for our actors.

Toni: Yeah, yeah.

(silence)

[15:50] Toni: Ahh, she’s a little vixen!

Matt: I love it

Toni: And he does drop her (laughing) in the mud. She was a good sport about this

Matt: She was a good sport

Toni: And you know, in the book she

Matt: We did play this slightly different than the book

Toni: Yeah, she’s very angry and screams at him in the book

Matt: After much debate

Toni: Ah, but there was a lot of debate, but in the end we felt that if we showed her laughing uh, it showed a little spark of life. Because this is, you know, as, as we know who she turns out to be in the end, uh, I guess it gave us a little glimmer of the spirit that she, that she had, that Jamie might actually think was

Matt: Whatever, you go with that

Toni: (laughing)

(sound of cork being pulled)

Matt: You know which side of the aisle I was on

Toni: (laughing)

(drink pouring)

Matt: That was me pouring if you didn’t hear that, by the way

Toni: Yes, have a little more, have a little more whisky here

Matt: Hold on, did you hear, just make sure you hear the cork. (cork being pulled again) There you go.

Toni: (laughing) Here comes somebody we haven’t seen since um, the premiere, at Culloden, if you recognize, uh, John Grey’s brother. And he is

Matt: I like, I love this that he recognizes him right off the bat.

Toni: This is the guy that saved Jamie’s life in the farmhouse after Culloden

Matt: Yes, yeah. Lord Hal Melton, which is, I would, you know, he has a different last name than John Grey because he’s the, he’s the

Toni: The older brother

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And he…

Matt: Sam Hoare is the

Toni: Yeah, he, all of this is, is subtext because he’s really angry at his brother here. He, he’s basically like, “Are you kidding me? I come to Helwater and there’s this guy that I had to save his life for the sake of family honor?”

Matt: Yeah, and Sam who, uh, is also named Sam, plays this part. He’s really good and the, the look he just gave his brother is

Toni: Oh yeah. But Geneva picks up on it. She’s smart enough to see that, “Hey, there’s something, some story behind the story here,” and she, conniving as she is, is gonna try to, to get it out of Hal and use it against Jamie and we see, we see how here.

[18:19] Matt: Now we used two separate estates to play um, both Helwater and um, uh, uh, Ellesmere estate. So this stable is the Helwater stable, but it plays, uh, we used Hopetoun House…

Toni: Mm hmm

Matt: ...um, for these stables. And later in the episode when you see the, the, the big reveal of Ellesmere’s estate, that’s the front of Hopetoun. Toni: Ahh, ahh.

Matt: So, we, we, we utilize a lot of different places within different locations to create um, to create our, our settings.

Toni: Right, right.

Matt: I love that little tricorn she’s wearing

Toni: I love what she’s wearing. I love the color of the vest and how it plays against the stones in the background. It’s just like a painting.

Matt: Uh, I don’t get into that, but I just like the little hat

Toni: (laughing) It’s a great hat.

Matt: (laughing) Yeah

[19:20] Toni: Now, in the book uh, he is, uh, out, actually out plowing in the field, very far away from the house

Matt: Yep

Toni: And she comes and finds him alone and he has his shirt off, which was fun in the book but we weren’t actually able to do that with our locations. We have this great location at the mansion and we thought it might be even more interesting actually to play, kind of that they have to be secretive while all these other workers are, are milling about and, it’s a very busy estate and, she’s, it’s even more scandalous that she’s kind of propositioning him um, really blackmailing him here, in the middle of everybody.

Matt: I like, I like that they’ve, well I also like that they face off

Toni: Oh. Oh.

Matt: You know, there’s, they’re both right there, eye on eye, you know, I mean there’s really great

Toni: Yeah

Matt: No one backing down

Toni: No, well he’s mad and he stands up to her but it, it only ignites, it ignites her more because she likes that. I mean, how many people say no to her in her lifetime? So she, she gets, she wants what she wants and she gets what she wants.

Matt: She wants her some Jamie Fraser

Toni: Yeah, who doesna? As we always say in the writers’ room. Everyone’s, everyone’s in love with Jamie.

Matt: Well some of you, somebody, some of you say that

Toni: (laughing) The girls. The girls are very enamored of him, especially our assistant.

(laughing)

Toni: Yeah, um, well, she uses the leverage that she has, which is threatening his family.

[21:04] Matt: See, I like how she doesn’t back down.

Toni: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: She actually uses the language against him, which is, is really nice

Toni: And she calls him Red Jamie. Um, she knows who he is, you know? She, his father, the father, Lord Dunsany knows who he is, but the mother, her mother does not. And if the mother were to found, find out, he would be sent away. And, to God knows where, so. She’s a female villain. I love it

Matt: Well what’s nice, what’s nice about her is she makes some good choices, you know, with, with how she played it. Cause she’s, there’s a softness to the way she’s playing it, but you, but, she’s so diabolical that it, that, you know

Toni: Yeah!

Matt: It’s hard, it’s hard to hate her, but you almost, you know.

Toni: Yeah

Matt: Yeah. And what, what helps is that, you get a nice turn when you know, when you ultimately realize it’s just an act.

Toni: Yeah. Exactly

Matt: She’s just covering for all of her insecurities and her fears um, yeah

Toni: That’s right, that’s right. You kind of, we kept with the Downton metaphor. We called her Lady Mary and we called her sister, uh, she was Lady Edith. Like, “Oh, here’s the nice one and here’s the vixen.” Uh, it was really fun, um.

Matt: Downton what?

Toni: Downton Abbey

Matt: Is that a show?

Toni: (laughing) Yeah! I know you don’t watch that, but I, I like those romances.

Matt: I’m, I’m just teasing.

Toni: (laughing)

(silence)

[23:00] Matt: I think this moment is pretty close to how it plays out in the book.

Toni: Yeah

Matt: Um, we made, this is a tough one. You know, you always, it’s always tough when we show uh, Jamie or Claire with other people

Toni: Yeah

Matt: It’s, it’s always the, cause, you know, it, oddly, when you read it in the book, you, you create the, the vision yourself. But when you show it

Toni: Yeah

Matt: And, and, and it’s actually there on screen, there’s no hiding these things

Toni: It’s in your face, yeah

Matt: It’s in your face. And it’s, how much do you show, and how much do they do this, and how much do they do that? And it is much tougher than, uh, what you imagine in the book because you create your own scene

Toni: Yeah

Matt: You know, Diana paints it in a way, but you actually fill in all the blanks. And there’s no blanks

Toni: No, no, she’s…

Matt: By the way, that was a little pun

(laughing)

Matt: Come on, that was a good one.

Toni: Ah, well, no one’s listening to you, they’re looking at Jamie’s backside, right now.

Matt: No one’s listening. No one’s, everybody’s like, “Shut up, Matt, just shut up, Matt.” (laughing)

Toni: Everyone’s like, “Shut up, Matt, can we just look at Jamie’s butt?” The guy does have a nice body, we have to, that’s, no denying. I mean, you can’t fault Geneva for wanting him.

Matt: You know, but I’m looking at the wallpaper. The wallpaper’s great in here.

Toni: Well, Gary, Gary Steele did a great job

Matt: Gary Steele killed, look at that! There’s flowers

Toni: Look at that, look at the set. The set is gorgeous.

Matt: There’s a mirror over there, I think (chuckles)

Toni: (laughing) You know, Geneva, you guys have to give her a break. She doesn’t know about Claire, she doesn’t know that he has another woman in his, in his heart. Um, she’s very young, she’s very inexperienced and, you know, she wants it to be with him, and, and, um

Matt: I would say this, how many of the fans wouldn’t want to be Geneva just for this scene?

Toni: Uh, just for one scene

Matt: Just the one scene, yeah.

Toni: Then he can go back to Claire, but just for one scene

[25:04] Matt: I think if we had a raffle we’d sell the tickets out

Toni: Yeah. Well, I mean Jamie’s, it’s clear he’s very angry in this scene. He’s being manipulated and he doesn’t wanna, he doesn’t wanna be here

Matt: Sure, definitely

Toni: This is not what, something he would have chosen, but, I, I think the, you know, the, the challenge of this scene was to show her as a, as a human being and a, and a, actually kind of a fragile girl who, for once, is, is not in control. She doesn’t, she doesn’t know what to do, um, she

Matt: Well that’s why they turned here, that’s the nice turn, is that she’s been this hard shell

Toni: Yeah

Matt: And the next, and, and, and when, when it becomes, you know, when she has to be intimate, she doesn’t know what to do.

Toni: No, and she, you know, Jamie sees that and that’s the beauty of him is, you know

Matt: Yeah

Toni: As mad as he is, he’s, he’s, his humanity lets him see her vuln, vulnerability and he’s kind to her. Um, and we love him for that, even if we’re mad at him for (laughing) you know

Matt: Well, you know that, I think what, what, to me, definitely the way this was toned, it was, you know, he’s kind and he’s gentle and he’s all those things because that’s who Jamie is. But for Jamie as a person, this is just the physical act

Toni: That’s right

Matt: It has nothing to do with intimacy

Toni: Yeah

Matt: It has nothing to do with, you know, love or anything like that

Toni: No

Matt: It’s a physical act that he’s getting through and that’s what’s, I think, what’s important to know about this scene. Even though it looks like there might be passion. Jamie hasn’t touched a woman in years!

Toni: In many years and, you know, he’s, he’s a man, and at, at a certain point, you know, it’s, yeah

Matt: So, you know, there’s something very primal about it, it’s just, this is primal. It has nothing to do with who that person is. It, it, it is a, a physical act, rather than an emotional act

Toni: No, and we, we had, yeah, we had many talks with the director to say, this shouldn’t be romantic. This is not romantic. This is

Matt: We actually, we actually dialed down the lighting in this to make it less romantic.

Toni: Yeah, and the music. Um.

Matt: Yeah, we even took the, there were three guys playing violins back there and we, we said, “Get out.”

Toni: (laughing)

Matt: (laughing) Alright, there weren’t. I lied. I lied again.

Toni: Wow.

(silence)

[27:53] Matt: And there you have it

Toni: Well, there it is. I, let’s take a drink. I think we need a drink (laughing)

Matt: Yeah

Toni: Well, if I find this really, kind of a heartbreaking moment, cause, you know, for her she’s so young and inexperienced, for her this mean, “I’m in love,” you know, “I love you now,” and that’s what you’re supposed to do is say, “I love you,” and he, you know, without crushing her, you know in a very sort of, almost like a teacher, says, you know, “This, this isn’t what love is. I mean, love, you can do this with any man, but love is when two people connect from their, in their souls, not in their bodies.” And, and there again, Claire’s present all around, you know. Even when he’s making love with another woman, his mind and his heart are with Claire and always will be and so, I find this a really moving moment.

Matt: I, yeah, it’s, once again, Jamie’s really kind, it, but he’s not

Toni: Yeah, he can get, he could get up and get dressed and leave and be like, you know, “Forget it,” but he’s, you know?

Matt: It, it, it, it’s a callback to the first time he was with Claire, to me, is that he knows the feeling he had the first time, and this isn’t it.

Toni: Right, right

Matt: And he knows that, and he’s trying to share that with her, it’s like, “You, you don’t know what that feeling is yet because two people have to have it.”

Toni: Right

Matt: “One person can’t have it.” It’s the, it’s that old saying, you know, “One hand clapping,”

Toni: Yeah

Matt: You know? And, and that’s what Jamie’s saying here, is, “You’re clapping, but I’m not.”

Toni: Yeah, and that’s, that’s, that’s a really cool way to put it. Yeah, I like that. That’s exactly what it is.

Matt: I say cool things after three or four whiskies

Toni: (laughing) Well have some more

Matt: (laughing)

Toni: You’re gonna need it soon, because there’s some

Matt: Yeah, I know

Toni: Some tragedy coming

Matt: Ah, Toni, you don’t write, you don’t write things that don’t have tragedy in them

Toni: Oh, we just try to make everyone cry

Matt: Yeah. We, we have

Toni: How soon can we get them to cry?

Matt: Yeah. You love it. Oh look, she’s pregnant!

[30:21] Toni: Oh man. That, that’s a shocker

Matt: Yeah. I will say that, that Jamie’s got, he’s got some good seeds

Toni: (laughing) Yeah

Matt: You know. He doesn’t mess around

Toni: He makes, he makes good babies

Matt: Yeah. Oh.

Toni: And Fiona. Ah

Matt: Ahh, the pearls!

Toni: Well. Yeah

Matt: Thereby hangs a tale, huh?

Toni: These are Claire’s pearls that she got from Jamie on her wedding night and, we wanted Claire to get them back. She, the backstory is that she had them when she came back and she gave them to Mrs. Graham who gave them...

Matt: Yeah

Toni: ...to her granddaughter, who then, and who feels Claire should have them back.

(silence)

Toni: You know, Claire’s starting to get discouraged

Matt: Yep

[31:36] Toni: Her life back in Boston is beckoning, uh, but, you know, the, the beauty of, of this, you know, uh, mission that she’s been on is that, that it’s brought her closer to her daughter than she’s ever been because, before she and Brianna had a very, sort of a, a flinty relationship, maybe? Uh, Brianna always felt the tension between her parents that she couldn’t quite put her finger on, and she wasn’t that close to her mother and ironically, finding out what she did in last year’s finale, um, which we also wrote and we loved exploring that, um, finding out this big secret about her mom and Jamie and time travel, uh, took down the wall between them and now we’re picking up that thread here in this episode where she’s like, “Wow, I’m, I’m,” she’s kind of riding on this high of, “I’m getting along with my mom, things are great, and I’m trying to help her find Jamie,” and she’s almost regretting that, “If we find him and she leaves again, I don’t want to lose her right when we’ve gotten close for the first time.”

Matt: Well that’s what’s going on here as well, is that, Ro, you know, as people, people being selfish in a way, but not in a, in a, in a malicious way. It’s, Roger wants to, to, you know, explore a relationship with Bree, and he doesn’t want to find Jamie because if he finds him then, then it might end and, he, you know, Bree doesn’t, “If we find him, I can’t explore my relationship with my mom, who I just, you know, realized had this big secret and that’s why she was so distant.” You know, so, it, a lot of complex feelings going on

Toni: Exactly

(silence)

[33:44] Toni: I’m just reminded that we have to give a little credit to, you know, our researchers Emily and Dani Berrow who’s in Scotland, uh, just on that line, “We must make haste.” You know we, we do our Scottish dialogue and our 18th century dialogue as best as we can, and we’ve gotten pretty good at it after three seasons, but still, sometimes we’ll write, you know, “Hurry!” And then we’ll get a note back from one of them that’s like, “Gotta say, ‘Let’s make haste,’” because they wouldn’t say, “Hurry,” back then, maybe

Matt: They would not

Toni: And um, it’s very, it’s very valuable for us to have um, people that, that can research and that know, or that know these things and, um, keep us authentic to the period in our dialogue and everything else.

Matt: Now the interior of, of Ellesmere is actually the interior at Gosford house

Toni: Ahh

Matt: Which is the exterior of Helwater. So, if you want to take a quiz on this later

Toni: (laughing)

Matt: Um, that is Hopetoun House and that is the exterior of Ellesmere. The interior of Ellesmere is Gosford.

Toni: Right, right

Matt: Which is the exterior of Helwater

Toni: Alright, that’s too confusing for me. I’ve had too many whiskies

Matt: No, it’s very confusing, I was there and it’s confusing, so

Toni: (laughing)

Matt: Uh, once again, Tanya Reynolds, who is outstanding...

Toni: Oh, she knocked it out of the park

Matt: ...as Isobel. Um. It was such a strong performance.

(silence)

[35:34] Toni: Well this is such an interesting moment for Jamie because it’s not like he loved this woman, but he’s sad, you know, he feels it. I mean

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And here’s where we find out that the sister knew all along

Matt: Yeah. I think she really hit Sam there, too.

Toni: I think she did

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And he deserved it

Matt: He, he did. He did

Toni: (laughing)

Matt: I mean, not Sam. Jamie did

Toni: Yeah. This, this is uh, an exciting scene and it was, it was your idea Matt, I remember to have them do it on the balcony instead of just in a room, to do it in this gallery, this beautiful marble and

Matt: Yeah, it’s a great house um, this gallery runs all the way around this huge, uh

Toni: Right. In the book I believe he, he holds the baby out of the window and threatens to drop it. We were gonna threaten to drop the baby over the railing

Matt: Over the railing, yeah

Toni: Onto the marble floor below, and then we, I think we ended up going with this, the knife, um

Matt: We just couldn’t get to the outside, um, in, in the way they could in the book, so, we had to make an adjustment

Toni: Yeah. And Jamie knows that’s his son, he hasn’t even seen him yet. And he’s trying to save his life

Matt: Yeah

Toni: It’s a very tense moment

Matt: I, I love that added layer to this scene, you know, Jamie would probably do this anyway

Toni: Yeah

Matt: If, if it wasn’t his son, but that’s the thing about, you know, Jamie Fraser. But it’s his son and that’s what elevates it about a thousand times

Toni: Yeah

(silence)

[37:35] Toni: Yeah

Matt: I love there’s no hesitation

Toni: No, I know, he just takes a chance

Matt: That was one of the things the, the big things in the tone was, you know, you don’t mess with Jamie Fraser or his family

Toni: And the kid look, the baby opened his eyes at just the right moment…

Matt: I know

Toni: ...and looks up at Jamie and, and that’s, that’s a real moment there, where he’s, he’s got his son in his arms and

Matt: And that actor’s agent was just so hard to deal with Toni: (laughing)

Matt: I mean, he wanted a big trailer, he wanted M&Ms, uh, special bottle, I mean it was all kinds of crazy stuff

Toni: Oh yeah

Matt: Yeah, and, and, and then there we go again

Toni: A beautiful baby, of course. And a, and a baby carriage, an old fashioned baby carriage

Matt: Which, by the way, uh, I think technically didn’t exist

Toni: I think they technically didn’t exist but we were like, “We want a baby carriage, can we have a really…”?

Matt: No, whoa, whoa, whoa. When you say we wanted it

Toni: (laughing) Toni wanted it

Matt: You mean you wanted it

Toni: I wanted one, so someone made a very gorgeous one

Matt: Yes, it’s beautiful

Toni: This is, this is uh… And of course we know that’s the name of Jamie’s brother, Willie.

[38:50] Matt: I think, I think, I think they know that

Toni: The fans know that

Matt: The fans know stuff that we don’t even know

Toni: They probably, they do know more than we know

Matt: Yeah. No they don’t

Toni: No, ah, we were pretty well studied in, in all things Outlander by now

Matt: All things Outlander. We live and breathe it

Toni: But I, I’ve not read ahead. I only read the book of the season that we’re on. You’ve read them all many times

Matt: I’ve read them all, yes I have.

Toni: I don’t like to, I don’t wanna know what’s going on. I think it’ll influence me if I know all the future.

Matt: But that’s, but that’s

Toni: But I stick to the book we’re on

Matt: That’s the balance between us

Toni: Plus they’re very long books and I’m very busy (laughing)

Matt: Well. But that it, it, it’s a good balance because you’ll, you’ll go with your instinct on story and, and I’ll go with, you know, hey, this is, this is where we need to go.

Toni: Right

Matt: This is where the book takes us.

Toni: Right

Matt: So, um, because we’re a television show, and we can’t, as much as people want us to do the exact scene in the books, um, and even speaking with Diana the other day, it’s, you know, we all get it that we can’t. We physically can’t do the things that are always in the books.

Toni: Right

Matt: We have to make adjustments, and, um, it’s nice to, that, we do the best we can

Toni: Yeah. Exactly. This is partly from the book, Lady Dunsany, I love, this is one of my favorite scenes. I think she did an amazing job. The actress is

Matt: Yes, uh, Beth Goddard

Toni: Beth Goddard. She’s amazing here. Uh, she’s grieving. She, she finally, the jig is up, she knows who Jamie Fraser is. Um, I also love the moment where Jamie says, you know, to the baby, this was not in the book, but when has a moment alone with that baby he says, “Dinna fash, I’m here.”

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And, of course, he’s just told the baby, “I’m here,” and then here she comes and says, “You have your freedom, you can go if you want.”

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And I love that, you know, all he’s wanted for all these years is freedom. He was in prison, he was in a cave, you know. He’s, he’s a prisoner at, even at Helwater, and yet when she says, “You can go,” you know, how’s he supposed to walk away from his son?

[40:58] Matt: Well that’s what, that’s what makes him Jamie Fraser

Toni: Um, and he, he’s Jamie Fraser, he’s not going to and so he has to find a way of saying, you know

Matt: And when we say that, you know, Jamie Fraser in a way is synonymous with, um, just a solid guy

Toni: Yeah

Matt: You know, the guy who does the right thing

Toni: The right thing

Matt: And, you know, he may do, he may do something wrong, but it’s always for the right reason…

Toni: Yeah

Matt: ...and that’s what I like about him. You know, even, even when Jamie Fraser has to take a life…

Toni: Yeah

Matt: ...there’s, there’s always a good reason for it.

Toni: Yeah

Matt: It’s not just arbitrary, you know

Toni: I just, it’s like the first, one of the first moments in the season that I’m hap, that I’m happy for him because, even though he went through this ugly ugly thing of being forced to be with Ge, Geneva and, and, you know, being torn about that, something, something beautiful did come out of it, is that he got this son. And, after losing two children, and that’s one of the first things he tells Lord Dunsany when he arrives is, “I’ve lost two children.” Here he is at Hel, Helwater and he’s, he’s gotten a child, a son

Matt: Yeah

Toni: And the son needs him now because he has no mother and, um, Jamie’s gonna be there for him and I, I, this was my favorite, one of my favorite parts of the book, if not my favorite part of the book, uh, this, these chapters about Jamie and his son, um

Matt: And that’s what’s nice about you when you read the books, you always have these favorite parts that normally aren’t my favorite parts, or other people’s favorite parts and that’s what’s so

Toni: No, everyone has a different favorite

Matt: And that’s what’s so hard about doing the books and turning them into a, a television show is that everybody has different favorite parts

Toni: Yeah

Matt: And sometimes we, we, we miss a few, you know, because we can’t. Now

Toni: And we don’t usually, we don’t write in any kind of order like other tv shows where they just go by rank or, you know, they go, they have a certain order. We say, “What part of the book do you feel passionately about and do you connect to and do you think you can write well?” And usually, I think that’s a smart way to do it because people will write, they’ll do their best writing on the parts they feel passionately about

Matt: Yeah. And this uh, this particular um, Clark Butler who plays Willie was, once again, we don’t, Toni and Maril and I, um, when we cast we don’t normally agree every, every time. There’s usually debates of who, who we like, we like different people for different reasons. And I think when we all saw Clark it was unanimous in, in the like, “That’s it! Done! He’s the guy.”

Toni: Yeah, he didn’t have the, he didn’t have the red hair but he had some, something about his eyes and the way he carried himself, he, he, he reminded us of Jamie and...

Matt: Well also, he

Toni: ...and um, I liked that scene where he looks at his reflection in the, I think in the book

Matt: But, but he had the, what we call, we call, when we talk about acting “the chops.”

Toni: Yeah

Matt: They say, “You have the range.” And, and he had it

Toni: Right, for a little kid who has some big speeches

Matt: For, for, for a young boy

Toni: A young boy that has a lot of big speeches

Matt: Yeah, who had to carry a lot of the show, you know, I mean, he has a lot of screen time with Jamie. And, and it’s not just looking cute, it’s acting.

Toni: Right

Matt: And the fact that, that he had it, we, we all agreed right off the bat, that’s it. It’s, it’s gotta be him

Toni: Yeah

Matt: And, we know he doesn’t look exactly like Jamie, but…

Toni: He has an essence, he has a pr, a pride and a, a kind of a stubbornness...

Matt: Yeah, this spunk, that, that think yeah, that spunkiness of, yeah

Toni: ...and a spunkiness, he had that spiritedness and, um

Matt: And that’s a lot of what, you know, Sophie brings to the character as well

Toni: Yeah. Yeah and we’re seeing siblings. We’re cutting from Willie to Brianna which is actually sib, sibling to sibling here

Matt: And, and that’s what, what I love about Sophie is she brings a lot of things that, now we know that in the book that, that Bree is six foot one and you know this, and, and Sophie isn’t, but she does bring a lot of, of, of Jamie

Toni: Well she’s very driven, she never gives up. She wants her mom to find Jamie, uh, she, even here she’s like, “We can keep going, we can find him, don’t give up, Mom!” And we love her for that and here of course they’re in the, in fact we added this part, remember, Matt? Because the research came back that it was very, it would be very odd for a women, woman to be in a bar with men

Matt: It would be very strange

Toni: At that time it was even outlawed or something, they just didn’t have women in bars and we thought, “Well, we need a scene in a bar so we’ll stick Claire in a bar because she’s that kind of woman that breaks the rules, but we need to have men staring,” or, our compromise was, “Let’s have men staring at them like, ‘You’re not really supposed to be in here.’” And, cause she’s, of course, from a different century

Matt: And a different

Toni: But here in the background we hear this woman reciting a poem

Matt: Who, by the way, I wanted to be a man

Toni: I know. We wanted, I, see I won that one. I wanted it to be a woman

Matt: You did win that one, yes

[45:53] Toni: She did a good job! She did a great reading

Matt: And it’s not that, I didn’t, you know, look. I’m, I’m all for women being in bars, but because it, it, it, we were playing a certain

Toni: She was a performer, so she was not drinking, she’s a performer

Matt: I know your rational, you’re trying to rationalize this

Toni: (laughing)

Matt: We’ll, we’ll rehash it again some other time

Toni: Well she says something very important in that, in that performance...

Matt: She does

Toni: ...that will come to, come to pass in, perhaps…

Matt: Other episodes

Toni: ...another episode

Matt: Yeah

[46:30] Matt: There we go!

Toni: There we go, “To those we’ve lost.”

Matt: There’s your “of lost things.”

Toni: And Claire

Matt: And, you know, obviously, uh, you know, Brianna’s lost Frank and, and

Toni: Roger’s lost his father

Matt: Roger’s lost his fam, father and his parents

Toni: And his parents

Matt: So

Toni: And Claire’s lost Jamie and Frank. And uh, and she’s like, “It’s time to go home.” And here’s where we connected the stories. We wanted to juxtapose, we purposefully put Jamie saying, “It’s time to go home,” with Claire saying, “It’s time to go home.” Cause they’re both sort of at the end of their…

Matt: Yeah

Toni: ...particular arc here

Matt: And that’s what the, we thought the, where Clark, Clark does such a nice job in this particular scene because we knew there was a lot of lines, a lot of weight and

Toni: Yeah

Matt: He really, he has a lot of range here

Toni: Yeah! He has to boss Jamie around! I mean, he’s like, “I’m the master here, so”

Matt: Yeah! I mean he’s the

Toni: And he does a great job

Matt: He’s the eighth Earl of Ellesmere, he’s a powerful

Toni: The ninth, the ninth Earl of Ellesmere Matt: Oh, right, that guy who got shot was the eighth

Toni: (laughing) Yeah

Matt: Eighth, ninth…

Toni: Yeah, who’s counting?

Matt: Who’s counting?

Toni: Well, Jamie accidentally calls him a bastard here, and of course he is a bastard. Jamie feels like you-know-what having said that to him and...Jamie’s trying to be stoic cause he knows he’s gotta go. Ugh. It’s heartbreaking

Matt: I know, you cry

Toni: Ah.

Matt: You cry

Toni: I’m gonna cry later

Matt: Yeah, you’ll cry later

Toni: At the end, you know when

Matt: You cry like, at Hallmark cards and stuff like that

Toni: (laughing) No. Well, occasionally, occasionally, commercials

Matt: (laughing)

Toni: Well, we know a scene is good in the writers’ room when it makes somebody cry. Somebody starts to get choked up you know we’re hitting gold there

Matt: Yeah

(silence)

[48:36] Toni: Well John Grey’s about to lose somebody too, speaking of “Of lost things.” He loves Jamie and, and his heart’s breaking right now.

Matt: I think what it is, is, is, it’s David’s eyes Toni: Yeah

Matt: He, you could not, he could not say a word and you get what he’s feeling.

Toni: Yeah

Matt: And that, it, and that’s what I, I really like about him is that, you know, whether he’s being hard, you know, or firm and, you know, you get it. You just look at his eyes, you, you can cut all of the dialogue and you still get it

Toni: Yeah. And here’s where we realize that he knows Jamie’s secret. I mean, John Grey has secrets of his own, but he sees Jamie’s secret as this boy who looks like him and who would notice it better than John Grey, who, who st, has studied Jamie, his face and his movements and he sees the same in the boy and, um, and ironically Jamie ends up asking him to take care of the boy. Um, because he’s seen that John Grey is an honorable man, a good man, and if he can’t parent his kid, he’s entrusting him to this guy who was his prison warden. So, you know, that’s an amazing turn of story there that I think works really well.

[50:17] (laughter)

Matt: I, I, I love, I love that reaction

Toni: (laughing) Yes

Matt: It’s like something the guy’s always wanted

Toni: Yeah

Matt: (laughing) But it’s like, “Uhh…”

Toni: It’s like, “Oh my god”...

Matt: Dear god, yeah

Toni: …”are, are you saying what I think you’re saying?”

Matt: See, once again his eyes play that so well, yeah

Toni: Yeah. I mean

Matt: (laughing) I love how he throws that away, too

Toni: Yeah

Matt: Like, “What are you, crazy? Of course!”

Toni: I mean, Jamie, this is a testament to how much Jamie loves Willie, I mean, he, he was willing to do whatever he needs to do to protect his son and, well I think he’s

Matt: (laughing)

Toni: Yeah

Matt: Yeah. Well that’s actually my favorite line in, in the, this show is when he says, “To a woman?!” (laughs) And he’s like, “Well, yeah, what do you want, what do you, what are you gonna do?”

Toni: Yeah he’s, that, that’s a little, it’s funny. But you know, John Grey turning down his offer is even more proof to him that he’s chosen the right man…

Matt: He did

Toni: ...to father, you know, to raise his son

Matt: John, John Grey is absolutely one of my favorite characters. You know what? I don’t have favorites, but I do like John Grey

Toni: Yeah, you said you didn’t have favorites!

Matt: I don’t have favorites

Toni: What’s going on here?

Matt: I, I like um

Toni: What about all the other characters?

Matt: I like John Grey

Toni: What about Geneva? She was amazing. What about…

Matt: Well, Geneva’s dead (laughs)

Toni: ...Roger? (laughs) Oh well, Geneva’s dead. Well that’s true, we’ve lost Geneva. But

Matt: I’m talking about characters that we might see again

Toni: Yeah. Well, we, we hope to see John Grey again

Matt: I, you and I had an argument about this particular moment because handshakes were not a thing.

Toni: Uh, well, true

Matt: And you made that happen

Toni: But I think it was important that he touched him with his hand because…

Matt: Well what saved it

Toni: ...it’s a callback to when John Grey put his hand on Jamie’s and Jamie pulled away and said, “I’ll kill you”...

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no I…

Toni: ...and now Jamie’s taking his hand and he, he needed to do that to show like, “All is forgiven and we’ve moved past that and we’re in a different phase of our”...

Matt: Once again, I, I, I get your, I get your insane rationalizations...

Toni: (laughing)

Matt: ...and why you want things. But, um, the thing that saved me is that he put his other hand on top of him…

Toni: Yeah, yeah

Matt: ...and that’s why it, it, it made it okay. But in that, in the period

Toni: They didn’t shake hands

Matt: They, they wouldn’t have done that, they bowed. Especially in, in the UK they bowed to each other

Toni: It wouldn’t have been, you have to admit it wouldn’t have been as effective if they just bowed to each other

Matt: Well no, I know, we wouldn’t want them to bow, but that’s why, that’s why, in, in

Toni: “Thanks for taking my kid!” Bow. (laughs)

Matt: I get it, I get it. So

Toni: No, it’s nice. Look, now look. This is something we have in common, St. Anthony. We used uh, instead of the Virgin Mary because we’ve used her in quite a prominent role in um, the “Faith” episode.

Matt: You still, you have uh, you have her head in your office.

[53:02] Toni: I have the head of, of the Virgin Mary statue that broke in the “Faith” episode in, on my desk, yes, yes, as a little inspiration

Matt: Yep, I brought it, I brought it back for you, yeah

Toni: Matt brought it back for me, it was the best present I’ve had my whole Outlander. Uh, though we do love our St. Anthony here um, we used him because he is the patron saint of lost, lost things. Um.

Matt: Yes, the patron saint of. And uh

Toni: Of. Not dot dot dot of lost things

Matt: Well, I don’t know

Toni: And I, I love this scene with, I love how Willie says (laughing), “I don’t want a wife.” And he talks about Claire to Willie and the people he prays for and his family. And then Willie says, “I don’t want a wife.” Um, but I really love when Jamie says, you know, “You’ll have a wife someday and uh, you’ll find her, or she’ll find you.” Because of course, you know, Claire, Claire found him

Matt: That’s my, that’s what I love, “I wanna be a stinkin papist too.”

Toni: Yeah. And uh

Matt: I, I think what, what’s heartbreaking about this scene is that Jamie knows he can’t be his father. And it also shows what a great father Jamie would have been…

Toni: That’s right

Matt: ...had he, had he been able to raise him as his own…

Toni: That’s right

Matt: ...and raise Brianna. He, and, and even Faith, you know what I mean?

Toni: Yeah

Matt: It, it’s, it’s just, this is a great guy and, and would’ve made a great father.

Toni: Yeah, he would’ve been for sure

Matt: And it, and it just kept getting yanked away from him at every turn

Toni: Absolutely.

(silence)

[55:01] Toni: And he gives him, of course, in the book, uh, he gives him a rosary uh, but we had figured that he couldn’t, Jamie couldn’t have had a rosary in Ardsmuir prison, they would have never allowed, especially something Catholic, so they would’ve taken it away from him so instead we had him, uh, we came up with Sawny the snake that he carves the way his brother gave him a, a snake, um, and he carves Willie’s name and then it was your idea to do the title card and Matt shot the title card, as he does all of our title cards and does a great job. And I love, I love him carving the snake and we don’t know who it is until

Matt: Yeah

Toni: You know, what it is until he gives it

Matt: Well here, here, this, this is the, the, the original um, kind of inspiration um...

Toni: Oh yeah

Matt: ...for you was, was this song

Toni: I, I know. When I read this part of the book, I don’t know why but even when I was reading the book, and that was probably a year before it was actually, we were writing this season, I thought of this song, this Bob Dylan song because it says, you know, “My beautiful blue eyed son.” And I wrote in the margins of the book “Hard Rain,” and I wanted this song for this episode since I first read that and, I knew

Matt: You wanted to actually call this uh, episode “Hard Rain.”

Toni: Yeah, that was one of the titles before the title whisperer came along and changed it, but I do love the title. But this song we absolutely had to have and I begged and crawled over glass for this song and I knew we probably couldn’t afford the Bob Dylan version, which I loved, and especially because he was nominated for a Nobel Prize during while we were trying to

Matt: But this, but this is actually, this is better

[56:31] Toni: This is actually better, and I have to say, give the credit to uh, Justin, our script coordinator. I told him to find some alternate versions to Bob Dylan. He came up with a few and he found this one that’s by a band called Walk Off the Earth, and I, when I first, uh, when I first played it I just thought, “Oh my god it’s perfect.” It’s even better, better than Bob Dylan because it’s a man and a woman, a duet, and it, it speaks to the Claire and the Jamie sides of the story and everyone who’s lost something here and we did a montage, which we rarely do

Matt: Well we rarely do two things. We don’t do a lot of montages and…

Toni: Or modern, modern songs

Matt: ...and we don’t do um, contemporary music.

Toni: No, but it was, it just was so perfect and we wanted, I wanted to end with where everyone was at at the end, everyone having lost something. Uh, a lot of broken hearts.

Matt: Well, people, people losing things is what it’s all about

Toni: Yeah. And Jamie riding away, having to leave his son, ah, and just

Matt: And over the course of this particular block that we were filming, the weather was uh, unusually nice

Toni: Oh yeah! I wanted rain in the episode for “Hard Rain.” This is the one single episode, it never rained one single day. I think I called them every day, “Is it raining yet? Is it raining yet?” It’s Scotland! For god’s sake, please rain! It never did. And you know what, I guess we didn’t need it

Matt: No

Toni: But we have our hard rain here at the end and I’m proud of this episode. Everybody did a great job

Matt: No it was a great episode. Well done Toni Graphia. That was episode 304, um, “Of Lost Things.”

Toni: “Of Lost Things.”

Matt: And well, well done by, uh Toni Graphi, so

Toni: Thank you

Matt: Um, have a nice night everyone, and we’ll see you again next week, uh

Toni: See you next week!

Matt: Yep

Transcribed 10/4/17 by Shelsy Joseph