Episode 221 - Discussion of 'Outlander' Episode 306 - A.Malcom

'''The Outlander Pod Episode 221: Discussion of ‘Outlander’ Episode 306 “A. Malcolm”'''

Ginger: This podcast is in no way affiliated with the Starz production or Diana Gabaldon. All views expressed are solely our own.

(music playing)

[0:16] Ginger Wiseman: Welcome to the Outlander Podcast where the men are kilted,

Summer Reynolds: ...the women are winsome..

Ginger: ...and the whiskey is neat. Welcome to episode 221 of the Outlander Podcast. I’m Ginger

Summer: And I’m Summer, and we are in love with all things Outlander.

[0:32] Ginger: Welcome back Outlander friends! We are so excited to be back with you to discuss our favorite show currently on television. Outlander, of course, season three and we can’t wait to get to episode what, Summer?

Summer: 306

Ginger: I hope so. And that would be what, Summer?

Summer: A. Malcolm

Ginger: Well, okay. Otherwise known as?

Summer: (in a deep voice) Print shop

(laughing)

Ginger: Are you trying to be that Saturday Night Livecharacter?

Summer: No

(more laughing)

Ginger: You (clown horn). Anyway, so we’re so happy, I heard a laugh out there, we’re gonna have to bring her in now. Um, we are so happy to be back with you guys to talk about one of our, our favorite show currently on television is the best way to put it. Before we get there we have to do two things. Number one, introduce the person who owns that laughter. Who is that, Sum?

Summer: That would be Lanae!

Lanae: Hello! (laughing)

Ginger: Our horsey expert. Woo hoo!

Lanae: Oh. I think you’re referring to, Summer, isn’t it the ah, no, what is that, that movie, not The Office, the uh, the guy with the, “I need my, my stapler. My Swingline stapler.”

Summer: Office Space?

Lanae: Yeah, Office Space! “Can I, I need a, I need a tea?”

Summer: “Red, red, my red Swingline stapler.”

Lanae: “My red Swingline stapler.”

Ginger: I’ve never seen Office Space

Lanae: You haven’t?!

Ginger: No, is that the one with Jennifer Aniston?

Summer: Yes.

Ginger: Okay, then I know, I know of it, but I haven’t seen it.

Summer: Doesn’t she have to have like, 20% flair?

Lanae: Yes!

(laughing)

Lanae: Oh my god

Ginger: We have Lanae with us

Lanae: Hello

Ginger: Of course. And she will rejoin us, don’t worry, we’re not kicking her out. But she will, you will hear her again once we get back to discussion of an episode, of a new episode. First we have, or sorry, second, first was Lanae. Second, we have listener feedback for episode 305, “Freedom and Whisky.” First we hear from Amber

[2:23] Amber: Oh my goodness! This episode was amazing! I don’t even know where to start! I didn’t get any tear pricks this episode, I was full on ugly crying. I loved last week’s episode with Lady Geneva. It was so good and I didn’t think it could be topped, but every single week it’s getting better than the last week. (laughs) And also I finally know the significance of the print shop. The last ten minutes were the best of the episode. Just the anticipation of what was going to happen. Was she really going to go back? Were they really gonna show Claire and Jamie seeing each other? Or were they gonna leave it for the next week? I loved how young and fresh Claire looks without her makeup and her hair all done up. Oh, and I loved how she brought things in her amazing dress! I was kinda disappointed that we didn’t see her go through the stones, but as I thought about it, we’ve seen it twice and it wasn’t really needed. And also I really loved the puddle scene. The only thing I thought was, I love Roger, I adore him. And Bree, I thought they were gonna go through the stones with her, only because when they were at the stones they could hear the ringing. Anyways, oh, this Amber from Ontario. Okay, bye!

Ginger: And Andrea P.

Andrea: Hi Ginger and Summer! It’s Andrea P. with my feedback. Well this episode really tested my patience on first viewing. I was really expecting them to go back and forth with the two timelines and I was like, “Where’s Jamie? Where’s Lallybroch?” And that just wasn’t happening. So certain scenes just seemed to last forever, especially the Batman, (chuckles) Batman scene. I just didn’t get that at all, why that was incorporated in, and that sewing sequence. And I’m a sewer, I love to sew but I was like, “I don’t wanna watch somebody else sew on TV.” (chuckles) So that was a little long. On second viewing I really liked it much more and I loved the Claire and Joe scenes and him as her confidante and really hoping that he shows up again. I liked how that Bree was embracing her Scottish heritage with her, you know, tartan outfits. I really noticed that and thought that was really cute and the Bree and um, Roger relationship just getting better and better. Of course, the last scene, I didn’t think we’d even get inside the print shop so that was such a wonderful surprise. But the two weeks is gonna be worse than Droughtlander! Alright, guys, bye!

[4:50] Ginger: Brittany.

Brittany: Hi Summer, this is Brittany from Denver, Colorado. Um, I just wanted to share some thoughts for episode 305. Um, first of all just wanted to say thanks for your podcast. I found it last week and I’ve listened to a bunch of episodes at work already. Um, it, I just love listening to it when I’m working on projects. But anyways, um, for episode 305 I had two parts that I thought were beautifully done. The first part was um, the tie in with the arches at Harvard. So first, Brianna and Roger are there and Roger talks about how he thinks that um, the history of the arch is the most important and people pass truth and secrets underneath. And Bree says she never thought about that before, um, and then she mentions, you know, that she likes how there’s truth in the calculations of the arches. Well later in the episode Claire and Brianna are actually under the arches again and they do pass back and forth truth and secrets and I thought that was so clever. My second favorite part was the puddle transition. I thought it was beautiful. Um, actually, when I was watching it with my boyfriend I looked at him  and I immediately was like, “That was amazing!” But um, I loved the mood and the lighting and the colors. It was perfect, they did such a great job. And we didn’t need to see her at the stones because that got us where we wanted to be fast. Well, those are my thoughts and again, thank you for your podcast, I love you guys! Um, hope you have a great week. Thanks, bye!

[6:12] Ginger: Now, Martina P. writes, “Hello Ginger and Summer. Really looking forward to your podcasts and live after shows. So fun to be able to geek out over Outlander in this manner. Massively enjoyed this episode. So far we have not really seen one weak episode in season three. I’m extremely happy to announce that I am on board. Yes, I have jumped onto the Bree and Roger train. Was immensely concerned about my inability to warm up to Bree, but I must say she really owned this episode. We needed that extended time with Claire, Bree, and Roger to invest in their relationship and all three of them truly delivered. Loved the Boston apartment with the lovely Christmas decorations. This must have been Bree’s work. Claire, the minimalist, would probably not have decked the halls on her own. I was immensely disappointed that they already showed the penicillin. It was such a fun and surprise reveal in the book. I would have preferred to see more of Claire’s and Joe’s relationship and would have loved a scene where the two of them bond over a trashy romance novel in the hospital lounge. Instead we get a Frank worship ceremony that was, in my eyes, a waste of time. Additionally, Claire doesn’t even get the opportunity to throw in Candy/Sandy’s face that she offered Frank a divorce ten years ago and he declined. While I enjoy the actress’s performance, to call Claire selfish to hold onto Frank was totally unjustified. Maybe her statement even convinced Claire that time is precious and she should not spend another day without Jamie. The ending sequence was, of course, pure perfection. Five Outlander viewers jump off their couch seats the realization hits home that we do not cut to black with the ringing of the doorbell! Five ladies hold their breath, grabbing each other’s arms when the camera follows Claire into the print shop and slowly exhaling when they see Jamie gracefully collapsing onto the floor. What a nice surprise and very satisfying ending. Party in Alaska for next week’s extended print shop episode. We will make a bit of fuss for this special TV delight with recipes from The Outlander Cookbook, rhenish, and, of course, whisky. Can’t wait.”

That sounds so fun, Martina! Wish we were closer! And now we hear from Curt.

[8:26] Curt: Hey Ginger, Summer, and the rest of the Outlandish family. This is Curt. I just wanted to say episode 305, “Freedom and Whisky” was such a great episode. Gotta be one of my favorites. I am a fan of 43 years old and I have to say I have my emotions in check, but this episode had my vision blurry a couple times. The dress, I wish they would’ve kept it the same lines as the books for episode 306, cause that would be fun. The Batman theme was, I thought, a little corny. Don’t get me wrong, I love Batman, but the, the utility belt joke was good enough. I can’t wait to see what goes on 306 and hope everybody has a great day. Bye.

[9:20] Ginger: Julie

Julie: Hi Ginger! Hi Summer! This is Julie, calling from Montreal. I really loved episode 5 and I’m really glad that you guys liked it to. I just may want to clarify something. I think that what Joe and Claire and the hospital staff were watching on television was actually footage from the Apollo 8 mission. This mission occurred in December 1968 and um, the astronauts left earth on December 21st, got to the moon, circled around it around Christmas eve and Christmas day, and then came back. So that’s what they were watching on TV and maybe this information kind of helps us figure out the timeline, which is a little weird in this particular episode. The moon landing occurred in July 1969 so we may get a reference to it or actually get some footage of it sometime in season four. So, hope this helps. Thank you very much for your podcast, it’s really nice to be able to listen to everyone’s comments and talk to you soon! Mm, bye.

[10:25] Ginger: Mary J.

Mary: Hello Ginger and Summer. This is Mary J. from Atlanta, calling in for the first time to give epis, feedback from episode 305, “Freedom and Whisky.” I’ve been enjoying your podcast and Facebook group for awhile now but I really wanted to call in a comment of this wonderful episode. First, the opening scene with Claire’s painting Bree’s first Christmas ornament in 1948 and then the quick cut to the hospital in December 1968 establishes once again for all of us, whether we’re book readers or show watchers or both, just exactly how long Claire has been separated from Jamie. I also wanted to comment on the bit about Apollo 8, which was not the moon landing mission. This mission, Apollo 8, was actually in late December 1968, which is just spot on for the timing of the series. I love the contemporary cultural references, especially Dark Shadows. My husband was a big fan of it back in the day. So appropriate that you hear this line on TV as Roger’s watching, “She was desperate to be reunited with him. She wanted to be with him that much.” Does that sound like anybody we know? Next, I thought it was a nice parallel that Toni Graphia had Claire say a touching farewell to Bree in this episode and Jamie had to say goodbye to Willie in episode 304. To me these two scenes were like bookends. When Claire leaves Boston and takes her leave of Bree and Roger, I like that they toast with a wee dram of whisky. This is Claire’s step toward freedom, so to me it really ties in with the title, “Freedom and Whisky.” Finally, we get to the print shop, the scene we’ve all been waiting for. Like everyone else, I love that she steps into the puddle and is back in 18th century Edinburgh. I’ve watched this episode several times now but I just caught on my last viewing that the print shop has a masonic emblem in it. The lighting of the Claire, of Claire in the print shop is wonderful. The first word that came into my mind is “luminous.” I know it’s been discussed a lot that Jamie is depicted as a Christ figure, and to me it’s not a stretch to say that Jamie, as he looks up at Claire, sees her as an angelic figure. The emotion on both of their faces is just everything I hoped it would be. That’s all I’ve got for now, I can’t wait for episode 306 and to hear everybody’s discussions about it. And thanks to Ginger and Summer for all that you do. Bye!

[12:38] Ginger: Melissa

Melissa: Hi Ginger and Summer! This is Melissa from New Jersey and I’m leaving feedback for “Freedom and Whisky.” I just want to talk about Joe Abernathy for a second because, I don’t know, Joe Abernathy is one of my favorite supporting cast members. I mean, he just is exactly the Joe that I loved and I created in my mind while reading because he’s just such a great actor. He’s an amazing actor. I really wish that they had kept him singing, “Dem Bones,” in the bones scene. And Ginger, speaking of that scene, did you hear Master Raymond’s theme playing with geh, when uh, it showed the bones? I don’t know, I thought that was kind of interesting. Also, I don’t know, I’m beginning to think about time travel and time travel in this show and Claire seems really uncomfortable around the bones, and I’m beginning to think, does she remember those bones from like, I don’t know, the past? I don’t know, I’m just, I don’t know if it’s a crazy thought or whatever but I just started to notice that in Claire’s acting or Claire’s reaction to the bones so, I don’t know. Thought. A thought. Speaking of Claire and Jamie at the end, oh my gosh! So excited! I’m so excited for the next episode. I thought it was perfect and Jamie did fall gracefully. Other than that, Ginger and Summer, you guys rock. Thank you so much for your podcast and I look forward to next week’s discussion. K, bye.

[14:01] Ginger: Linda G. writes: “First off, I just want to reiterate that your podcast and live after show are extraordinary. Now for episode 305. Wow. Worth the wait! Where to begin? I must say I have had a change of heart towards Bree. I like her. She’s definitely coming into the role. Roger is a charmer. I will drink to that, hehe, Summer, I promise I am not a drunk. Now the Candy/Sandy scene had me a little annoyed at Claire. She’s a badass. Come on! Did the cat have her tongue that moment? I was expecting her to tell Candy/Sandy, ‘Frank could have left at any time. There was no anchor tied to his ass.’ (Ginger chuckles) I myself loved that, the Batman theme. Had me grooving. I find it not impossible to make a dress if you pulled an all-nighter. This episode was so good. The wigs were kinda weird. I hope Bree gets a better ‘do soon. Okay, last but not least, she’s back! I just want to pass out. I literally thought the bell ringing was the ending. Those secretive little bastards. Jamie fainting was classic and so well played. The music was awesome. Can’t wait for the soundtrack. Looking forward to the next extended episode on the 22nd. Thank you both for all this joy you bring to us loyal fans. You both rock.”

That’s very kind of you, Linda G. Very very kind of you.

[15:21] We interrupt this listener feedback to bring you a word from our sponsor.

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[16:38] Ginger: And now we hear from Michael M.

Michael: Howdy Ginger, howdy Summer. This is Michael from Shawnee, Kansas with my feedback from Outlanderepisode 305. I would like to begin by sharing that, once again, one of my favorite scenes is a scene that’s not directly from the book, and that’s the exchange between Claire and Scandy. Scandy, in my personal view, my dislike for her is somewhere between show Geneva and book Geneva. But I think there was a point to this exchange, and it was Scandy’s final statement, when she told Claire how she would give anything to spend just one more day with Frank. I think it was a message for Claire, “Do anything to spend one more day with Jamie.” Now let’s talk about this time warp between Christmas eve and Christmas day. I rewatched this episode after listening and participating in conversations about this time warp. Commander Lovell, or actually, it wasn’t commander of Apollo 8, he gave this speech while orbiting the moon on Christmas eve and I’m thinking that the gift exchange happened on Christmas day, but in the episode about three days happen between the two. I think the show may have got the wrong date. Apollo 8 launched on December 21st, and if that was their intent for the scene with Claire and Joe watching TV, then things make sense. That’s my two cents. Now, for my final thought for this episode. It was my expectation that the episode would end when Claire enters the print shop, just as the bell rings as she walks through the door. I was pleasantly surprised that we got to see a little bit more. We got to see Claire and Jamie make eye contact. And then we got to see Jamie faint. For Jamie, it was game over. (clip of the game over sound from PacMan).

[18:25] Ginger: Pam H.

Pam: Hi Ginger and Summer, this is Pam from Jacksonville, Florida. This is the first time that I’ve ever called in, even though I do listen to your podcast on a weekly basis. I absolutely love listening to the two of you banter back and forth. My ideas for “Freedom and Whisky,” I absolutely love this episode. I’m finally starting to see the relationship between Brianna and Roger come to fruition. I do have to tell you I had my doubts about the casting of Sophie. Her portrayal seemed a little stiff in the couple of episodes that she was in but I think that she’s finally starting to find her own. And I absolutely lovethe relationship between Claire and Joe Abernathy. Those two are fabulous together. I hope that we see more of him in future episodes. And I know that there’s been a lot of discussion about the portrayal of the Batman music as a theme for the creation of her outfit to go back to Jamie. But I gotta tell you, I absolutely loved it. As a child of the ‘60s that was one of my favorite episodes when I was a kid. I loved watching Batman and Robin, so. I am so looking forward to the reunion and I gotta tell you, the last five minutes of the episode, I think that I have watched that over and over again, when Claire got out of the carriage and jumped into the puddle, this look of wonder on her face. It was marvelous. And her finding Jamie’s printshop when she stopped and pressed the sign and then walked up the stairs, kind of paused before she opened the door, and then when she saw Jamie, just kind of looked at him with love just shining through her eyes, totally amazing. And then when she said, “It’s me, Claire,” and Jamie just turned around, kind of hesitated and then just looked at her.

[20:48] Ginger: Sherri.

Sherri: Hello, my name is Sherri and this is the first time I’ve called. I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts from your podcast from October the 9th, on “Freedom and Whisky.” I found it a very interesting, uh, episode and especially the end. I’m still watching that (chuckle) particular thing on um, my uh, Starz app and I have been telling people on Facebook that it’s not so bad waiting two weeks to see the next episode considering that back in um, season one we had to wait six months leaving poor Jamie at the uh, windowsill in Randall’s office while uh, Claire had a knife to her throat. So, considering that I think we’re do, still getting a good thing going here. (chuckle) You guys do a great job. Uh, one FYI, though, of the thing about the skeleton, it was two hundred years, not two hundred and fifty because Claire had told him that she had the uh, skeleton was a hundred and fifty years and uh, Joe had said, “No, you’re just off by fifty,” so, just wanted to bring that cause two hundred and fifty years would have taken it farther past into the early 18th century instead of the later part of the 18th century. So I just thought I’d point that out to you. I look forward to hearing your next podcast and you guys keep up the good work. And you have a good day. Bye bye

[22:27] Ginger: Traci

Traci: Hi, this is Traci from Virginia and I was just calling with a small correction on the last episode. Um, you guys said that they were watching the moon landing, they were actually watching Apollo 8, which was when we orbited the moon for the first time. We didn’t land on the moon until Apollo 11. And a little side note, the man you hear talking is Jim Lovell, who also was on Apollo 13 and was played by Tom Hanks in the movie. Um, thanks guys. I love your podcast!

[22:58] Ginger: Virginia H. writes: “Ginger and Summer, thank you for reading my last comment. It made me happy. I took the trouble to take notes during episode 305 but you Outlander fiends stole most of my observations, which made me pretty happy to realize how much in tune I am with this podcast. Production went bolder and changed many not-so-small things from the book this time. I have to say I was really looking forward to seeing the Jessica Gutenberg dress but was delighted to follow Claire’s making of the dress with Batman 1960s theme in the background. It was also a well-deserved homage to Terry’s dream team. Loved hearing the opening of the book about puddles and the quick transition from 20th century Claire to 1700s Edinburgh. My heart kept skipping beats while I followed Claire slowly toward the print shop. Talk about suspense! Hearing the, “Is that you, Geordie?” that I’d read so many times was total bliss. Now it’s just wait for the most anticipated “A. Malcolm” episode and see the biggest reunion of the century. Pun intended. Oh, and I expected more of Jamie’s swooning. Where was that ale pot? What excuse will he have to take off his breeks? Once again, thank you for your podcast, can’t wait for the next. Cheers!

And now, we hear from Amy D.

Amy: Hey Ginger and Summer, it’s Amy D. with a little feedback on episode 305, “Freedom and Whisky.” I’ll try to talk fast because I know I’m long-winded. Aside from the obvious, the ending, what I loved most about this episode was the evolution of Claire. Can I just say that I’ve missed our strong and determined heroine? Throughout the first four episodes Claire became hardened, withdrawn, and closed off, with good reason. She was a shell of the energetic and resourceful woman we’d seen in the 18th century. But in “Freedom and Whisky,” as Claire began to come back to life, I realized just how much her journey had been the same as Jamie’s. Gut-wrenching, hollow and empty. In this episode we see her returning to her former self, the Claire we all came to know and love in seasons one and two and books one and two. First there was the surgery where she took some initiative to do something that Joe didn’t really approve of in order to save a patient. Was it the first time she’d done such a thing? Probably not, but it seemed that maybe in Joe’s eyes she’d asserted herself in a way that she hadn’t before. I think in that moment Joe was seeing her with new eyes, something that was pretty much confirmed later in the episode when he asked her multiple times about Scotland. And speaking of which, when Joe asks her if she met a man and she admits that it was someone from her past, there was such a look of relief on her face, like being able to talk openly about Jamie, even though she wasn’t telling Joe the whole story at that point, freed up something inside of her. And the scene with the skull, I felt like there was a sense of wonder in her expression that we haven’t seen for awhile. That knowledge she has that she’s kept buried these last twenty years, that there is so much more that’s possible than people will ever know, that was bubbling to the surface. And this sense of wonder was repeated in the moon orbit scene as she was looking out at the moon in the sky. And although this wasn’t in the books, I think it really added to this sense that Claire is coming back to life. I feel like the interactions with Brianna and Joe where Claire wonders if she’s still attractive and if Jamie will still love her and later on in the episode when she’s eyeing her gray streaks, showed us that for the first time in a long time Claire cared what she looked like. Not in a vain way, but in a way that said she was waking up after a long time of being Claire the wife, Claire the mother, and Claire the doctor, but not necessarily Claire the woman. And finally, the bat suit. Love it or not, this little snippet of Claire creating and sewing and making from scratch her attire for her return to the past, while it was a departure from the book, it gave us a peek at how determined and resourceful she really is. Something we haven’t seen from her in awhile. It was like getting the first glimpse after a really long drought of the woman who’d treated infections and injuries and battle wounds under such primitive conditions in 18th century Scotland. And finally, when she stepped out of that carriage onto the cobbled streets of Edinburgh, the look on her face said, “Home.” I could almost taste the relief and contentment she felt at being back in the time and place that had given her life such purpose and meaning and Caitriona embodied the thing that we’ve always believed, that Claire is more at home in the 18th century than in the 20th century and that she really was made for thistime. The entire episode was a reawakening for Claire, a return to her true self. And for us, it was a time to get reacquainted with the heroine we’ve missed so much and I, for one, am so glad that our Claire is back. Oh! And one last thing. I loved the fact that Brianna wore plaid more than once. There was the skirt when she spoke with the professor about her failing grades and the jacket that she wore to the ceremony honoring Frank. Perhaps this is on purpose, Terry? A nod to her Scottish heritage and her biological father during both instances where Frank was discussed? Either way, I liked seeing Bree in plaid.

[27:50] Ginger: Eileen P.

Eileen: Hi Ginger! Hi Summer! This is Eileen P. from Melville, New York. Well, I can’t believe they went beyond the bell ringing in print shop! I canna even! Well, okay, I can. But let me start with something else first. Let me talk about the other woman. Dr. Candy/Sandy. While I’m glad the show fleshed out the other woman, you would have thought after Frank’s death that Claire would have heard from the woman he intended to marry. But that was missing from the book. On the show we get Dr. Candy/Sandy having it out with Claire at a public event, Frank’s tribute. Why does she show up at an important family event? She always does this. First at Claire’s graduation celebration, now at Frank’s tribute. Well, I think that’s because Dr. Candy/Sandy has a really bad sense of timing or consciously, or maybe subconsciously, wants Claire to be very aware that she exists. Now we know Candy/Sandy is wrong. Claire did offer Frank a divorce, but Frank wouldn’t do it. Frank didn’t stay for Claire, he stayed for Brianna. And because of that, Brianna got to experience a loveless relationship between her parents. I think Frank hurt everyone by staying in the marriage. Claire, Brianna, Candy/Sandy, even himself. Now also in the book, Claire was made out to be an absentee mother. This is due in part to her demands from med school and, after that, as a surgeon. However, there was also some kind of distance portrayed, perhaps due to Claire being fragmented and not quite herself without Jamie. This distance always bothered me, given how heartbroken Claire was when she lost Faith in childbirth. Well the TV series made up for all that in “Freedom and Whisky.” That episode opens with a title card showing Claire hand making Brianna’s first Christmas ornament. We later learn that Claire knows her way around a sewing machine because she made all of Brianna’s costumes and pageant clothes. Despite her career, Claire was there doing the things moms do. By adding in these touches, it upped the angst quota in Claire’s dilemma. Should she stay or should she go? Stay with the daughter she loves or leave her forever to be with her soulmate? While it’s surprising that Claire is upset when Roger shares the news that he had found Jamie, we then understand that Claire and Bree have a deep bond. She is a mother that does not want to leave her daughter. It is Bree that gives her permission to leave. When Bree gives Claire a necklace with Bree’s topaz birthstone, it’s a symbol of that permission. And with that gem, Bree insures Claire’s safety travelling through the stones. And now we have Claire safely through the stones and in the right time and in the right place. I bet Claire fantasized about seeing Jamie again for the first time in twenty years. I also bet none of those fantasies included Jamie fainting. You could see in her reaction that this was true. The unflappable surgeon was flabbergasted. I canna wait for Claire to revive Jamie. But back to “Freedom and Whisky,” I love that Bree and Roger are being less tentative with each other. I think it’s very hard for Bree to let her wall down. She’s becoming more comfortable around him and I love that he is smitten with her. And while I’m saying what I love, let me include, I love having Roger love TV and I also love having Claire make her clothes to the Batman theme song. When music from 1968 is used I feel the scene is firmly set in 1968. I’m a musician and I appreciate that musical connection. That’s all for now. Bye!

[31:40] Ginger: And Lisa T.

Lisa: Greeting lasses, it’s the intrepid Lisa T. from Valley Forge with some wee thoughts on Ep. 305. Um, there’s so much in here, I just want to focus on um, Toni’s brilliant use of the prologue. Um, I have always thought when I first read it that the puddle is an analogy for time travel and other worlds. So, okay, this really struck me, ‘The only time I would dare walk through a puddle was at twilight, when the evening stars came out. If I looked in the water and saw one lighted pinprick there, I could splash through unafraid--for if I should fall into the puddle and on into space, I could grab hold of the star as I passed, and be safe.” This reminded me of the passage in Outlanderuh, after Jamie has saved Claire from the witch trial and she decides to stay with him and they say it takes uh, “thousands and thousands of years for the light of those stars to reach us. In fact, some of the stars we see now may be dead but we won’t know it because we still see the light.” So I think that Claire’s referencing the star um, uh, that she could grab hold of and be safe is a reference to Jamie he, like the stars, he’s not in her time. Um, he may even be dead but she still sees his light, even as distant as they are from each other. Also, as we talked about in the readalong, she refers to him um, as the sun and the sun is a star. So, um, I love that brilliant use of the prologue. Also, absolutely loved that they did not cut right away when she went to the door at the end and we got to see Jamie and Claire look at each other and him fall. Thanks a lot, lasses. Have a great great show.

[33:15] Ginger: Kate S. writes: “Having made period clothing myself, 16th century, not 18th, I can tell you that there’s no way that Claire could have made that outfit in a day. Especially since she was working from a pattern in a book. She would have had to draw the pattern pieces, adjust them to fit her and make a trial garment to be sure that the limited amount of fabric she had from all those raincoats laying around (that’s sarcasm, by the way) wouldn’t be wasted if she made a mistake. And then there are those undergarments. Where the heck did she get the boning to stiffen her corset? Plus she used a zipper to close it. Then there’s her bum roll and petticoats too. Nope, no way she did that in a day. Keep up the amazing job you do ladies. And thank you.”

Thank you Kate, that was very kind. Love that you listen and love that you contributed. And now, Matthew P.

Matthew: Hi Summer and Ginger, it’s Matthew. Just leaving some feedback on um, episode five of season three. Uh, thought it was a good episode. It dragged out a bit too much, I think, the “Oh, I’m going to go, I’m leaving, what will I do, what will Brianna do?” Same kind of scene over and over again, really. Um, but I’m glad that at the end uh, Jamie and Claire were reunited. I thought it was quite funny at the end um, she didn’t know that was coming. Um, I imagine it’s the same way in the books with uh, Jamie collapsing. Presumably he’s not dead or had some heart attack because to me that’s quite funny if he just fainted. I’m slightly worried about the series though, in terms of where the storyline is going. So season one was all new, it was all an adventure. Season two was you know, let’s stop Culloden. But season three, after they're, reunited, what’s the point of the story? Um, I don’t really know what the forward kind of momentum is. And, anyway, I’m sure you all do, having read the books but I’m interested to find out. Had, hope the episodes continue in this fashion because this was a, a good episode. Thanks, bye.

[35:06] Ginger: And last but not least, Sara V.

Sara: Hello guys, this is Sara from Chile, South America. I have uh, several things to say so I will try to be quick. Uh, first of all I felt really bad for Candy/Sandy, even though she, she got a full version of Frank and Claire’s arrangement I did feel bad for her because I think that she uh, really loved him. Also that, that scene was obviously included to make Claire think about going back in time, so I think it’s justified. Another point, OMG, Dark Shadows. That show was a huge hit here in Chile. My mom told me that she wouldn’t miss an episode. I, I’m also a former fan of the 1981 version with uh, Ben Cross. That leads me to A Charlie Brown Christmas. I didn’t know that it was so old. I used to watch it every year uh, while growing up here in the ‘80s. Uh, it always aired on December 24th or 25th here in Chile. When did it air in the USA? Maybe that’s a clue of, of when Claire left. Also, uh, Claire looks so much more beautiful in the 18th century than in the 1960s. I think that all the makeup and hairstyle made her look older. In a sense it’s like uh, she’s wearing a mask covering her true self. Finally, I had butterflies in my stomach when Claire was approaching the print shop. And then when she entered and heard Jamie the same happened to me uh, when I was reading that part in the book. I can’t wait for the next episode. Bye!

[36:52] Ginger: Okay we are ready to go (singing) forward! I don’t know where that’s from, I just kind of make things up as I go, apparently. So last time

Summer: That was not from anything, that was just from you

(laughing)

Lanae: That was from your butt. Sorry, I don’t know what

Summer: You pulled it out. Out of your butt.

Lanae: You pulled it right out and threw it at us

Ginger: Uh, out of my butt?! That’s really rude!

Lanae: (laughing) Like, like a monkey at the zoo. I don’t know what to tell you

Ginger: Okay, I can tell, okay, I, uh, ye, uh, mm, dear listener

Summer: But it almost sounded like Donna Summers “Hot Stuff.”

Lanae: I know

Summer: (singing) Lookin’ for some (Lanae joins in) hot stuff, baby this evenin’. I need some hot stuff baby tonight.

Ginger: (laughing) You guys are, okay, stop doing that because you’re just gonna make me do it more. Not tonight but in other episodes. Okay, Summer, I’m like, “Summer, you’re like the last one to like support this kind of thing.” (laughs) Or encourage. Okay so, last time we were with you, dear Outlander friends, we were talking about, well, last time was an interview but the time before last we were talking about 305. And last time we left our hero on the floor and our heroine in a Juliet position seeing her dude in a deid faint.

Summer: I left my heroin on the counter top. I hope no one finds it

(laughing)

Ginger: Okay, dear listener, if you’ve left heroin out, go get it now (laughs)

Lanae: You know, a man fainted on me (laughs) it was only that one time though and I don’t think that counts (laughs)

Ginger: Oh, Lanae, that’s another show. Okay, so here, at least at this point, oh, this is what I thought when I first watched it. Of course, we don’t get the normal intro with the song and everything and then a title card right away.

Summer: It’s a cold open

Lanae: Cold open

Ginger: It does not pick up where we left off which is

Lanae: Different. They show us his POV.

Ginger: Exactly. Which a lot of people, I read, the stuff that I was able to read uh, were looking forward to. We simply start earlier the same day, hours before Claire comes into the print shop. Jamie is being dressed or a-fitted, straight, his stuff being straightened by a woman. Now at this point we don’t know where that is and we don’t know who she is, correct?

Summer: You’re right, but maybe we shouldn’t say his stuff being straightened (Lanae laughs) because now I’m imagining her like, messing with his penis.

(laughter)

[39:06] Ginger: His tie or whatever, his cravat, cravat? You just, whatever you call it.

Summer: It’s just,  yeah. Does he hang right or left, I wonder?

Lanae: I don’t know.

Ginger: Summer!

Lanae: You never know until you get down there.

Summer: Madame Jeanne probably knows.

(laughing)

Lanae: Yeah, she probably does. A good taylor knows.

Summer: She’s like, “I dressed him right today.”

[39:21] Ginger: The woman is, I mean, the way she looks at him and after he like walks away she, the, she like turns around, the camera gets her she looks at him

Summer: It’s, there was familiarity

Ginger: She’s, she’s got the hots for him, come on.

Summer: There’s familiarity there

Lanae: Well, he, there’s a lot to appreciate, you know?

Ginger: Heck yeah

Lanae: Any, any, any like, warm-blooded heterosexual woman would appreciate a man that looks like him, so that’s not unexpected

Summer: Did it seem like his scarf was kind of overkill? Like the blanket that she wrapped around him? I liked the look of it, but when they went back outside the second time like, when he walked in the morning to the print shop, it made sense, it looked cool, it’s cold, whatever

Lanae: Yeah, yeah, yeah

Summer: But then when they went out again almost no one was in any kind of warm clothing

Lanae: Yeah!

Summer: They didn’t have any, he was the only one with a gigantic blanket wrapped around his head

Lanae: Yeah, yeah, no you’re right, I noticed that too. It was kind of like, a little like, awkward, like, oooh, he’s bundled up more than anyone else on the street.

Summer: Yeah

Lanae: Except for you know, I don’t know, the women  have so many layers back then they probably were way more bundled up than you realized, but. It’s not like he looked like that kid from like The Christmas Storyor something like that (laughs) Couldn’t put his arms down

Summer: But like no other, but like no other like, man had anything more than a coat. Like a surcoat.

Lanae: Yeah. Maybe he was trying to just, you know, be suave that day. I don’t know. He was feeling it

[40:36] Ginger: Did you guys recognize the music as he leaves the uh, the building? The place?

Summer: I feel like Bear McCreary wrote it

Lanae: (laughs) Stop it, Summer

Ginger: Ah, yes and no. It was an arrangement but it was, it’s a s, it’s a traditional Scottish tune. It’s uh, “Comin’ Thro the Rye.”

Summer: It was like (sings some notes). That one?

Ginger: Yes! Exactly. You’re right. (laughing) When he’s indoors and she, she’s straightenin’, straightening up his stuff uh, you don’t see it or he doesn’t have it on. But when he goes outside and we hear the music, oh my gosh! Jamie in a (singing) tricorn!! Okay, that came out again

Summer: Donna Summers

Lanae: That was (unintelligible)

Ginger: (laughing hysterically)

Lanae and Summer: (singing to the tune of “Hot Stuff”) Jamie in a tricorn, baby this evenin’. In a tricorn, baby tonight.

Ginger: (still hysterically laughing)

Lanae: Oh yeah. Ginger, you were totally like, channeling like, the Donna Summer tonight, girl.

[41:30] Ginger: So it wasn’t just like, what I sounded like, it was also the rhythm or the number of syllables? (laughs hysterically)

Lanae: Yes, yes. I’m not imagining Full Monty in my head as we speak

Ginger: That’s so funny.

Lanae: So thanks for that. Although Jamie steps in, so that’s alright

Ginger: (still laughing) Oh my gosh

(more laughing)

Ginger: Oh crap. Oh my gosh, that’s hysterical, you guys are awesome. Oh. Okay, so, Jamie in a tricorn. (laughing) I can’t ever do it without hearing it. Jamie in a tricorn. And then I wrote actually, “Dude, anyone in a tricorn,” or any man, almost.

Lanae: I don’t know about that

Summer: Mmmmm

(Ginger laughing)

Lanae: They just, they just, I don’t know about that

Summer: They just hire good looking men and put tricorns on them so, I mean, it’s hard to say any man in a tricorn

[42:19] Ginger: So I love the upbeat walk through the streets. He is setting the picture for us. We see the people, the place, and everything kind of around him and he ends with the music at the print shop. As he is walking we are accompanying him and through his eyes, through the camera we see the sites. We see, you know, the streets of Edinburgh.

Summer: It’s like the 18th century opening to Saturday Night Fever

Lanae: Yeah

Summer: With John Travolta and the paint cans

Ginger: Oh! As he kind of struts through?

Lanae: (singing) “Well you can tell by the way I use my walk I’m a woman’s man: no time to talk.”

(Ginger laughing hysterically)

Summer: But, slightly different soundtrack

Lanae: Slightly different soundtrack

Summer: No paint

Lanae: (laughing) No paint

Summer: It’s shot for shot, you guys. Shot for shot

Lanae: No flare, instead of...it’s shot for shot. Instead of the flared collars it’s, it’s the tricorner hat and the big scarf. That’s all. That’s the difference. And the music,  you know, it’s a little different.

(laughing)

Summer: A little bit

Lanae: A little bit

(Ginger sighs)

[43:13] Summer: She’s just sighing

Lanae: She’s like, “I don’t even know what to do with you freaks tonight!” (laughs)

Ginger: It’s...he, he takes us to the print shop and uh, he spitshine...what, did he, he, didn’t he spitshine it?

Summer: Um, I think he just rubbed his sleeve

Ginger: Didn’t he touch his tongue?

Summer: No, I think he just rubbed his sleeve, oh, uh, yeah

Ginger: Okay

Lanae: No, I think he used, I think he used his thumb and kind of rubbed a smudge on it and then used his like, arm, his forearm to like, polish it a little. Which was all kinds of cute

Ginger: Well, so that’s a spitshine

Lanae: It, yeah, it’s kind of a spitshine

Ginger: It was very cute

Summer: Well, nah, you’re saying spitshine and I’m imagining him going (pretends to spit) and like, spitting on it, like loogie-ing

(Ginger laughing)

Summer: He didn’t lick his sign

Lanae: But you can tell he’s like proud of his, proud of his, he’s proud of his print shop and he’s like, ready to open for the day and blah blah blah

Summer: Yeah, yes. I mean, it is a cool sign, I’d be pretty proud of it too.

Lanae: It is a cool sign.

[43:54] Ginger: He enters and the bell sounds, obviously, well when you open the door the bell’s gonna sound. So here the music gets a little bit ominous, it’s a little bit dark in there and we, along with Jamie, hear someone. And it’s, or someone’s, uh, some low voices speaking. He realizes it’s only his men and we know that, okay, this is my, I can’t prove anything, but this is what I’m guessing for two reasons. It’s some of his Ardsmuir men. First, because they call him Mac Dubh.

Lanae: Yeah, definitely

Ginger: Second, because I recognize one of the dudes and his wig

Lanae: And his wig

[44:30] Summer: I recognized his wig

Lanae: (laughs) I, I assumed, I assumed just because they called him Mac Dubh

Summer: I assumed because they acted like criminals

Lanae: That too

Ginger: Well that, okay, that, fair enough. But also that begs the question, I thought we were told that everybody at Ardsmuir was shipped off to the colonies except Jamie?

Summer: Unless they were, you know…

Ginger: Let go?

Summer: ...released earlier than that, yeah. (chuckles) Let go. “We’re gonna have to let you go.”

Lanae: Well, when they closed the prison I mean, I think they said allof the prisoners were shipped off to blah blah blah blah. But I’m sure there were some prisoners where they were like, “Eh, we’ll send you over here. And we’ll send you over there. And you can finish out the last year, few years here doing this, that, and the other.” I doubt all of the prisoners at Ardsmuir went to the colonies. Like, every single one? I don’t know. I, it just seems like it would make sense that they would kind of be, divvy up where different people would go, that they wouldn’t just be like, “Okay, ya’ll gettin, get on the road and head off,” you know? In the book, though, in Voyager, um, what did they call him? The smugglers? That were, that were with him?

Summer: The who?

Lanae: The other smugglers

Summer: I don’t think they called him Mac Dubh

Lanae: They didn’t call him Mac Dubh, did they? I don’t think so

Summer: They, they were no, they were all smuggler people, I think they're just calling him Malcolm

[45:50] Lanae: So maybe they’re, maybe they’re changing things up a bit for us and being like, “Okay, we’re gonna drag a few people from Ardmuir to show him, show that, you know, he has these loyal, few loyal people, and just to show that, you know, there’s loyalty in his men. Maybe.” Maybe that’s going to come, you know, be poignant at some future moment that he might need to know who can trust of the men he’s hired and who he can’t

Ginger: That’s true, that’s true cause that comes to play maybe or maybe not in book three, in uh, season three.

Lanae: Yeah

Ginger: Now, also as uh, during this little scene here, this is our first, at least verbal, in the show, reference to Young Ian. Of course we saw the baby but

Lanae: We meet Geordie with his huge goiter (laughs)

Summer: Geordie

Ginger: Oh, Geordie

Lanae: Oh my god! It was like, it was like the size (laughing) it was like the size of a tennis ball…

Summer: It was huge!

Lanae: ...on the side of his neck! I felt so bad

Summer: He had a small child hanging on his every word

(laughing)

Lanae: I laughed so hard at that.

Ginger: The writers let us know Jamie’s precarious position. He gets after his own and reminds them, “You know you’re not supposed to come here,” cause they were not supposed to be at the print shop. And they’re like, “Oh, we came after dark, la la la.” He’s like, “It’s off limits.” So basically some of his own, his most trusted people, aren’t taking Jamie too seriously. You can, we can argue about that, or not.

Lanae: No, that’s true

Summer: Just as a side note, as a side note

Lanae: Or they’re just getting sloppy

Summer: I just looked in the book and on the docks he was known as Jamie Roy

Ginger: There you go

Lanae: You mean ruadh

Summer: Ruadh

Ginger: But the men who, he kind of gets after them a little bit, and uh, he’s still like, “Look, as long as you’re here I’m gonna put you to work.” So he says that they have to go to Arbroath. Readers will remember this as the location of a smuggled goods hand off gone wrong. However, for the adaptation, it’s the location of an establishment called the Three Thistles, which I think is also from the book, and it’s owner, Jamie says, is a Papist. These men, who call him Mac Dubh, are to deliver some treasonous pamphlets to this Papist owner. He says, Jamie does, that after they have delivered the pamphlets the dudes can go chase down all the women they want. He says he trusts them with hislife, but not their own. And then, speaking of the owner of the goiter, good old Geordie shows up, calling them riffraff.

Summer: Did he own that goiter or did that goiter own him?

Lanae: I think the goiter owned him

Ginger: Okay, fair enough. The own, the one owned by the goiter

Lanae: What is goiter exactly? Isn’t it a deficiency? It’s like some sort of...isn’t goiter vitamin deficiency?

Summer: It’s a growth, it’s a..

Lanae: I know but I thought goiter is like caused by, okay, hold on, what’s goiter caused…

Summer: I’m gonna Google this

Lanae: Let’s Google it

Summer: Goiter…

Lanae: I meant to do this

Summer: This is gonna ruin my search, my, all my search history. It’s gonna be like, “Summer looked for goiter?”

(laughing)

Ginger: Summer

Summer: It’s an enlarged thoyroid

Lanae: Thyroid

Summer: Thoyroid. An enlarged thyroid.

Lanae: Yeah, but what causes it?

Summer: Let’s see.

Ginger: An enlarged thyroid (laughs)

Lanae: Thanks. Thanks for that, Ginger.

Ginger: You’re so welcome. Don’t you love my medical smarts?

Summer: Okay, “a goiter can occur in a gland that is producing too much hormone…

Lanae: So hyperthyroidism

Summer: ...too little hormone, or the correct amount of hormone. Goiter indicates there’s a condition present which is causing thyroid to grow abnormally.”

Lanae: Well that’s, that’s totally not even

Summer: Iodine deficiency.

Lanae: Thank you

Summer: Is the most common

Lanae: Most common form. There’s some, I knew there was some sort of deficiency that was cause, the common cause of goiter. Cause, I mean, my sister has hypothyroidism she’s hashimoto syndrome. And um, she has to take thyroid every day because her thyroid basically burned itself out. But um, it doesn’t cause like, her to get this huge tangerine sized knob on her throat. You can’t see anything at all.

Summer: (laughing) Knob on her throat

Lanae: (laughing) It’s like, seriously! Yeah, it’s just, you know, there’s different types of hypothyroid and hyperthyroid and, but those don’t typically cause goiter. Goiter is usually, I always thought it was a deficiency so I was kind of right. Thank you.

Summer: You’re welcome

Lanae: Okay, moving on. (laughing)

Summer: But look how well he cares for his goiter. He kept it nice and wrapped and warm in a scarf

Lanae: He kept it nice (laughing)

Ginger: It’s called a, it’s called a goiter bra

Lanae: Yeah

Summer: A bra?

Lanae: Gotta hold that in, man.

Ginger: Hold it up, give it support

Summer: No, it was a goiter girdle

Ginger: Oh, there you go

Lanae: Goiter girdle. Poor guy.

Summer: Called a goitle

Lanae: (chuckles) Goitle.

Ginger: Was that, that’s not in the books, right?

Summer: I don’t recall that

Lanae: I don’t recall

Ginger: I mean, he could have had one but Diana never told us

Summer: It was an interesting choice. I was like, “That’s...weird.” I don’t know that I ever remember him being described as having goiter but I’m gonna look that up right now

[50:30] Ginger: The men leave by the back and Jamie tells Geordie that he needs more soda ash for the presses. He says, “Please go get it.” Geordie, who has just taken off his coat, turns and gets it to put it back on and says, “Of course. Perhaps this evening before I leave for the day you might share any chores or errands you care to have done so I can carry them out on my way into the shop and not no, and not retravelling my steps.” Dude, that guy, he was hecka funny

Lanae: He was funny

Ginger: He was good. I think he was, he was like  a scene stealer. Then Geordie leaves. And Jamie starts working on the printers. So cool to see him work the press. And then we see Jamie with glasses. That was sweet. Now the bell rings. And understandably Jamie says, “Is that you, Geordie?” But then he says, “Where did you go to get the ash? All the way to Glasgow?” Uh, didn’t, was Jamie like, working that press for like an hour?

Lanae: I think, I think we had to assume that time had passed while he was working

Summer: Well it was kind of like a, a misty montage, I mean it did, kind of, it was fairytale-esque

Lanae: Yeah, it was kind of like, to show, showed the different steps of him doing the press because it’s not like you, once you get a plate in a press like that you don’t, you don’t like, remove it every time.

Summer: Mm hmm. You make that page over and over and over

Lanae: Over and over and over for like, a couple hundred times, probably, as many times as you, you know, you can. And then you change out all the plates, so, he was probably just, you know, trying to get us to understand his job and what he’s doing and how, how it works.

[52:10] Ginger: And then with our eyes, or the camera, still on Jamie we hear Claire say, “It isn’t Geordie.” Now when you guys first heard this, like, I lost my shiz. I mean, I know what’s coming, that’s not even a question but…

Lanae: Well and we had seen it the last episode and, but it’s different, it is different, I have to say, from her perspective. You see it and there’s a certain kind of anticipation when you see it from her perspective like, “Oh my gosh, what’s he gonna say, what’s he gonna do?” Even though we all know. Um, but then when it comes from his perspective it’s definitely more eery

Ginger: Exactly

Lanae: It’s like he hears the voice and you know it’s Claire and we, we all know it’s Claire, but he hears it and he gets the look on his face like he’s heard a ghost.

Summer: He has.

Lanae: And, and it’s just, it’s a cool scene, it’s a very,  you know, we all love this scene. Come on.

Summer: Alright, so I just did a search of my, of the first seven books of Outlander and there were only two mentions of goiter, none of which in relation to Geordie. So they’ve given him goiter.

Lanae: They gave him goiter to make him interesting, probably

Summer: They gave him goiter. I wonder if the actor naturally just has a goiter and they were like, “We love him so we’re gonna give him a goiter.” (Lanae laughs) “We’re gonna, we’re gonna let the character have a goiter.”

Lanae: Probably not. Most, you know, most people if they have something like that they get it taken care of. These days. They actually do….

Summer: Well, in the book they uh, Claire, they have her remove the thyroid

Lanae: They can, they do treat, they can do treatments to sh, shrink the thyroid and if it doesn’t shrink properly they can actually remove the thyroid and then you’re, you’re hypothyroid the rest of your life and you have to take thyroid, that’s all.

Summer: Claire, it says, uh, a young woman with incipient goiter admonishes, admonishing her to procure a quantity of dried fish, so she’s, she’s trying to get her iodine

Lanae: She’s trying to get her to take iodine, yeah, that’s in the fish, the salted fish

Summer: So we’ll have to wait and see, I don’t, I don’t know if we’ll see Geordie again but if we do I imagine the first thing she’s gonna want to do is tell him to get that taken care of

Lanae: The first, honestly, when I first saw Geordie, the first thought that went through my head is like, “Oh god, Claire could fix that.” (laughs) Wait til Claire sees him. She’ll fix him up.

[54:12] Ginger: Jamie turns after he hears this, not right away, he like stops and there’s a beat. But he turns and sees her and then as we all know from the books and from last week, or two weeks ago, faints.

Lanae: I love how he like, puts his hand out. To try to like, catch, like he’s trying to catch himself. He kind of sticks, throws his hand back and like, catches all the paperwork and it all falls to the ground with him, cause I don’t know if you’ve like, ever passed out, but I have, and it is that like, you can’t stop it feeling. Like, it’s just, it overcomes you and it just blacks out and you’re like, body stops working and it’s a very strange feeling.

Ginger: I’ve almost passed out one time and I didn’t, I didn’t pass out, thankfully, but I was in, it always starts overseas. I was in Germany, in order to use the communal phone downstairs you had to use phone cards. So I was in the room, in that little tiny booth, and I remember the floor like it was yesterday, the floor was black and white tile and I was talking to my mom and dad, it was like a weekly phone call or something like that and I wasn’t feeling very well. I felt, not like shivery or anything, but I felt a little nauseous and I like, it was like someone turned a switch on and I started to sweat, I mean like, profusely, and I was not moving. So I knew I was gonna be ill. I didn’t know what but I felt really weird. I’m like, “Mom, dad,” whoever it was, I’m like, “I, I’ve gotta go, I don’t feel well, I have to go lie down,” they’re like, “Okay, take care,” you know, “we’ll talk to you next week,” or whatever. I literally like, barely make it, I like somehow hang up the phone and don’t like, drop it. I’m leaning against the door, it’s like one of those heavy doors to push open. I push the door open, I take like two steps out of the room and almost do a face plant onto the black and white tile. And I landed on my hands, thank god, hands and knees, and then I crawled up the stairs on my hands and knees, up like, four flights of stairs to get to the one person I knew who was there. I felt so bad and I knocked on her door, I think I pulled myself up and I’m like, “Can just lie down? I feel really really bad,” and I, cause I could see stars and I saw the black coming in front of my eyes when I almost did a face plant. It’s like, I lost consciousness for like a half, not even a half, uh, you know, a small bit of a second. And I knew that if I, you know, if I were standing up I would’ve fallen. Lanae’s right it’s very, I didn’t go out all the way, but it’s so weird and you, like, you literally cannot control what your body does or how you fall. So it’s, it’s just, you’re up one minute, you’re down.

Lanae: I’ve had enough incidents where like, not that I pass out all the time, but I’ve had a couple and I’ve had a couple incidents where I was sick. (laughing) I was on the back of a horse taking a lesson and it was really hot out.

Ginger: Oh my gosh, that’s even worse!

Lanae: I know, right? I was really stupid and I think I was coming down with the flu, later that night I came down with the full blown flu but I was sitting on the back of my horse and I was getting ready to jump another course and my trainer was like, “Lanae, are you okay? You’re kind of looking pale,” and I’m like, “I’m seeing stars.” Like, literally flashing in front of my face. She’s just like, “Get down. Get down off the horse right now!” And I’m like, “Okay.” And I hurried and got down and she put my head between my knees and I didn’t actually pass out at that one, that particular time, but I have like, I, another time where I was getting sick I was in the shower and I woke up

Ginger: Ugh, another bad place, Lanae!

Lanae: Yeah. Right?

Ginger: (laughing) You have the best timing

Lanae: I know, I know. I was in the shower, I, I heard, it was weird, either my brain was telling me or some other random voice in my head was telling me, I literally heard a voice in my head say, “Lanae, sit down. Sit down NOW.” And I saw these flashing lights in my eyes and the next thing I knew I was in the bottom of the tub like, looking, watching the water fall on me. And I was like, “Okay, this is weird.” (laughing) And then I, and then I kind of got up and I got my wits about me and yeah. Only a couple, like, one other time that I can remember other than those instances. But when it happens, there’s like noth, you, I’ve learned though, when you, when I start to see stars, and I have had a few other times in my life where I’ve started to see the flashing stars in front of my eyes and I’m like, “Okay, head between knees. Head between knees now.” And that’s like the only thing that gets you through it and passes it without you actually passing out. So just, just some information for all you listeners out there. If you see stars

Ginger: Get off the road, sit down, just get, get as low as you can. Yes.

Lanae: The edges of your vision start to go to, you get tunnel vision or you start to see flashes of light in front of your eyes, sit down. Just do yourself a favor and sit down and like, maybe lay down if you can. (laughs)

[58:40] Ginger: Then we get the intro and the title card. And of course the title card is the printing press and doesn’t it say that it’s written by

Summer: This was the best title card of the season

Lanae: Yes, that was the best title card! We both love

Ginger: I loved it. It was so cute

Summer: They printed, they printed uh, “Written by Matt B. Roberts,” I think, “Directed by..” whoever was the director of this one

Ginger: So Claire goes to him and he comes to. I’m glad they kept the ale pot. That was hysterical. His awkwardness as he starts to disrobe, he’s like, “Okay, it’s all over me, I, I, I, I didn’t piss myself, okay, great, that’s a good thing, but I, but I need to like, get out of these clothes.” And he realizes like, “Oh, um, in, number one, I’m in the middle of my shop at where anyone could walk in and number two, in front of this woman who, uh, yeah.”

Lanae: He like, asks her to turn around, doesn’t he?

Summer: Yeah. He’s like, “Do you mind?”

Lanae: Yeah.

Ginger: And Claire says, “We’re married.”

Lanae: “Aren’t we???”

Ginger: “Aren’t we?” And then uh, their first touch um, the ring, she hasn’t taken off, we see it. And uh, he asks if he can kiss her. And as they kiss, of course, I’m gonna say this all throughout the episode, let’s just get it out now, the love theme was just like, someone took a bucket of love theme and threw it on the episode. It’s everywhere. The intimacy here is palpable. And I loved it when he said, oh man, this is a tear prick. I’m not, no, I’m not gonna cry, Summer. But I got a tear prick when I saw it and when I wrote this. He says, “I can touch you now.” Like, all this time, obviously, if I’ve ever, cause he says at some point, “You come to me in dreams, I’ve seen you,” and da da da da da. He’s like, “Now I can actually touch you.” So that was, that was heart, it was beautiful but also kind of heartbreaking cause, you know, you realize, again you’re reminded how much, how long they were apart. Geordie returns right then and lets us know he’s Freechurch and will not stand for orgies in the shop.

Lanae: What is Freechurch?

Ginger: Especially before noon. Freechurch is like uh, I think Pres, a type of Presbyterian?

Lanae: Okay

Ginger: And he stomps off. He like, goes, with that, is that what you call, what you would call a flounce?

Lanae: Yes, he flounced

Ginger: Like in a group? Okay. He flounced

Summer: He’s such a drama queen.

Lanae: Yeah, Geordie’s definitely a drama queen

Ginger: Oh, he dude. He dude. He, oh, he owns it though. He is the scene stealer of this episode and the last episode.

Summer: No, his goiter was

Ginger: Okay. (laughing)

Lanae: He’s a man and his goiter

Summer: I couldn’t take my eyes off it

Lanae: We gotta give them both some credit. Not just the goiter.

Ginger: Oh lord. Sorry about that. Sorry dude. So they go to the back room where he can change and

Summer: I have a question for you.

Ginger: Is it, hold on, what is it about?

Summer: About his clothing.

Ginger: Okay. Keep it to the clothing. Go for it.

Summer: Just the clothing. In the scene where he faints in the shop he’s not barefoot. And he’s not sockless.

Lanae: Yeah

Summer: All he takes off are his pants.

Lanae: Oh

Summer: But when he goes into the back room he now has no socks or shoes on

Ginger: Oh, he’s barefoot

Summer: He’s barefoot. So then when he goes to put his pants on he’s got these, you know, little bare legs at the bottom and I was like, “Where did the socks go?”

Lanae: Oh yeah

Ginger: I wonder if that was an editing, an editing mistake

Lanae: Possibly. Yeah

Ginger: Or if they, yeah.

Lanae: Huh. I didn’t even think about it

[1:01:50] Ginger: So he gets his breeches on and uh, then book readers rejoice and show watchers, meaning those who only watch the show and have not read the books yet, are probably like, shocked and surprised and amazed and like, thrilled that Claire pulls out photos of Brianna.

Summer: It was the only ziploc bag that made it into the episode.

Ginger: Exactly. Uh, I think it was not even like a baggie, it was like a wrap

Summer: No, it was

Lanae: It was either plastic wrap or a zip, I thought it was a ziploc baggie

Summer: It looked like

Ginger: Well it may have been plastic

Summer: It didn’t, okay

Ginger: But it was wrapped

Lanae: It looked like wax paper or something

Summer: It was not, okay. It was not a ziploc because those did not, those did not exist but it was definitely

Lanae: It was, I think it was like Saran wrap, like plastic wrap

Summer: It looked like a little sandwich bag

Lanae: Yeah. Like a closed bag or something

Ginger: Yeah. It was so sweet and as I, as I wrote, or as I said earlier, straight from the book. So I love, there’s a few things that happen, not, not with the photos, per se, we’ll get to it. But um, this

Lanae: Yeah. I bet the plastic wrap around the pictures is the little nod to the plastic wrap, you know, she tells story about when she first goes through…

Ginger: Aw, I hope so

Summer: The peanut butter sandwich

Lanae: ...the PBJ

Ginger: Yeah, the peanut butter sandwiches

Lanae: She tells the whole, the whole like, scene about her eating the sandwich and her letting the cellophane out of her hand and it blows away in the wind...

Ginger: Yeah

Lanae: ...and she watches it blow away and think about…. Anyway. I bet it was a nod to that because in the sho, in the books, the pictures were wrapped in wax paper. I specifically remember it being wax paper.

[1:03:20] Ginger: I love seeing his reactions and when he says, “Our daughter.” And Claire tells him that Bree knows everything. Jamie brings out his glasses to look at the pictures and he says they’re on, only for reading

Lanae: So cute

Ginger: So yeah, so this shows that he’s a little insecure as well. She mentions that she has gray in her hair but she’s dyed it. As he looks at the pictures it is so emotional and there’s a slight, not a full on love theme, but there’s like a slight variation of what sounds like it’s part of the love theme. Brianna, Claire says, because of course Jamie says it’s an awful name. Brianna is not an awful name. And as he’s looking at the picture he mentions her red hair was like Faith’s. Jamie learns that Claire is a surgeon now and uh, when he sees the picture of Brianna in a bikini (laughs) he’s not too, he’s a little shocked, he’s a little shocked.

Lanae: I swear, there was a mansitting right next to her when she was dressed like that. (laughs)

Ginger: And a dude. Yeah. She assures him it’s normal for that day and um, when he’s done he returns the pictures and this is where things like, little things like plastic wrap and who cares, right? That’s whatever. Mac Dubh even, who cares? This is where I got a little bit what the eff. He returns the pictures to her and goes to get a portrait of wee Willie. This is a huge change. In the books, this is not a spoiler since they’re not gonna do it any more, in the books Claire finds this information out from Lord John Grey who takes pleasure in telling her this shocking news. It’s the Lord John and Claire in the book who are playing who-knows-Jamie-best. So um, left off right here for a moment ladies. What did you think about that whole thing?

Lanae: I think they, they took that whole scene away, then. They’re not gonna do that scene.

Summer: I mean

Lanae: Cause that was the big reveal that like, dun dun dun! you know, moment that Lord John gives us.

Summer: I feel like yes, they took that moment away. But there were so many things in the book that Jamie was keeping from her that I think they had to, they had to, they just loaded, they, it, it was a load. One thing after another thing and the, the reveal that’s coming is HUGE.

Lanae: It’s huge.

Summer: So the

Lanae: So they have to, no I think you’re right. I kind of thought that at the same time as like, well they gotta give her this because the reveal, the other things he’s keeping from her, you, you’ve gotta, you know, she’s gotta have a reason to stay. A reason that she feels like he trusts her and that she can trust him. You know what I mean? Like he, he’s, like, he has to have revealed enough of his life that she feels like, “Okay he wants me here and I don’t have a reas, I, I shouldn’t leave and go back.” You know what I mean? Cause there is going to be the moment, we know, that, that, she, maybe, where she has to make another decision again. And

Ginger: And that comes up later on in this uh, episode as well. Something that I didn’t see the first like, three times I watched it, or didn’t hear. So Jamie tells Claire about Geneva and some of the circumstances, not all, of Willie’s birth. Claire takes this pretty well. I mean, damn well. But she says, and this is why I think it works, that she understands that he had a life. She expected it, she knew he would have had a life while she was gone.

Summer: She had a surgical life

Lanae: She did try to have a sexual life with Frank. She tried. That didn’t work. So it was only natural, I think, for her to think, like, okay, he’s a man, he’s, he has, I mean, men and women, we all have needs and it’s been twenty years with him having no thought that he would ever see her again. She has to understand. And I’m sure she would understand that, you know, “He thought he would never see me again.” He moved on with his life and there were things he did and he has to be, there has to be a certain amount of leeway and forgiveness for that, you know what I mean? And understanding.

[1:07:34] Ginger: Jamie’s afraid that Claire left Frank to come to him. She says, “No, no no, he’s dead.” And yes, Frank did accept her back when she went.

Lanae: They came together because he fell in love, you know, he fell in love with having a daughter. He loved the, he loved raising her and that was enough for him to stay with Claire.

Ginger: So she does say Frank was a great father to Brianna. But she says nothing about loving him. The clock strikes, I thought it was noon at first, but he says something about one o’clock, so it has to be striking, did it, wait, did it have more than one bong? I didn’t even listen to that. The clock strikes one, I believe, and Jamie perks up. Oopsie, he’s forgotten an appointment. Claire will go with him, of course, there’s like, wild horses couldn’t, I think that’s straight from the book too. “Wild horses couldn’t keep me away.” As they walk Claire fills Jamie in on the end of the Jacobite rebellion and Bonnie Prince Charlie. That was interesting, I liked, I like that kind of, tying that off

Lanae: I liked how she talked about him having to don a woman’s dress and run from rooftop to rooftop or something to escape. (laughs)

Ginger: (laughing) And then they see Fergus. I love CésarDomboy. Arrogant as ever, Fergus says, “I have,” in response to Claire saying, “You’ve grown up to be a handsome young man.” (laughs) “I have.” Claire notices his hand and of course this, he just says that basically it was the British um, and that, that of course is a tale for another day. Real quick, what did you guys think about seeing César as uh, Fergus?

Summer: I’m curious as to why they chose to not give him a hook. He was supposed to have a hook.

Lanae: He was supposed to have a hook.

Ginger: I think I read about that. I think the reason they did the hand the way they did it is because it would be easier

Summer: Probably as a smuggler it makes you less identifiable.

Lanae: Yeah

Summer: If you’re like, “The dude has a hook, one of the, one of the smugglers had a hook,” then it’s like, how many dudes in the city have hooks? It can’t be that many.

Lanae: Well, probably more than you’d think (laughing)

Summer: For the time period, yeah

Lanae: For the time period, people amputated things a lot.

Summer: And it was a seaport

Lanae: It was a seaport

Summer: And you know pirates.

Lanae: Yeah

Summer: They have hooks

Lanae: Arrgh.

Summer: And pegs

[1:09:50] Ginger: You know that uh, I, I think you’re right, it’s less, it’s less likely to be, you know, chosen out of a lineup, if you will. Less easily. And, even though it may not have like, finger fingers, like, cause we didn’t see fingers, right? It was like a fist?

Lanae: No, it was like a, it was like a, like a

Summer: It was like a Barbie hand

Lanae: Yeah, yeah. It was, it was like a G.I., G.I. Joe hand or something

Summer: Yeah. It was mold, it was molded. They weren’t moveable fingers.

Lanae: It was like a cover. It was like a carved wooden hand and it had fingers and a thumb but the fingers were all connected together in like a, not quite a c-shape, but the thumb was out to the side. It wasn’t like

Ginger: Ah, okay. So the good thing about that is that unless you got really close you could even put a glove on that, or at least make a glove, make a glove to fit it. I love the way Fergus says, “Milady!”

Summer: Yeah

Ginger: And that’s also straight from the books. I mean, obviously, we, we already had young Fergus saying that

Lanae: I saw pictures, I didn’t see pictures of young Fergus and old Fergus together until just recently and when they were apart and their hair looked different I didn’t like, think they looked at all alike. But when um, César, when he has his hair down he does, they do look more similar. But in this episode he had his hair pulled back and I’m like, “He doesn’t look like Fergus at all!” Like, (laughing)

Ginger: He still had kind of like, in the back like, flyaway hair. I don’t think his hair was not down, I think it was just covered in a tricorn. (singing) Tricorn!

Lanae: No.

Ginger: So um, so the story is that Claire went to America after Culloden thinking that Jamie was dead and uh, that’s as much as she says. And that’s what she repeats. They mention a person named Mr. Willoughby. I wonder who that is. And Fergus says he needs to speak with Jamie about him. So Jamie and Fergus go aside and after they do Fergus asks Jamie, “Is milady staying?” (laughing) I thought uh, there were two ways to take that, to interpret that. And I’m not saying he means two ways. I, I think he means literally is, oh, no no, I think he, I think he means the second way. The first one is literally, is she staying and like, not going away this time. And also, will she be sharing a, quarters with you? “She’s staying with you?” You know, like that. So, um, then Fergus says, “What about…?” and kind of like, has this head move. And book readers, book readers know exactly what he’s on about. (laughs)

Summer: Yeah. And I feel like we’re gonna be spending the next few episodes dancing around

Ginger: Oh, and this episode too, like, so many times. So Jamie seems to freak out just a bit about the topic and says he must consult Ned Gowan to advise him on the law. Huh. So maybe a legal matter, by chance?

Summer: Well this is also a change from the book because Ned Gowan is not...

Ginger: Is not alerted until much later, yeah

Summer: ...hired. Well he’s also not hired by Jamie

Ginger: That’s true.

Summer: He was hired by the other party

Lanae: Yes, you’re right

Ginger: By another party. We find out that Mr. Willoughby, whoever this is, is drunk. Again. And uh, this is again between Jamie and Fergus and Claire is hanging out in the background with Mr. C’s pies. (laughs)

Summer: I didn’t see that.

Ginger: They’re all over. Love it. Good on you, Mr. C. Robert. So, and they’re off again. He, Fergus kind of takes off, Jamie and Claire go to The World’s End tavern, which is a real place. If you guys have been there, then let us know, dear listener. Share some pic, pictures with us, either in our group or on social media or on Instagram and tag us. Let us know

Summer: I’m going

Ginger: We’re gonna make sure we go (laughs)

Summer: I’m going in May, I don’t know about you

Ginger: In May. When they get there Mr. Willoughby, who is someone, we learn, is, or a person, is speaking Chinese and being semi-attacked by a hoor. She said, the hoor, that he licked her elbow and didn’t pay her for it. Jamie is like, “Oh, dude, okay. Let me take care of this. Here, here’s your, here’s your money.”

Lanae: Really? Do you need money for somebody licking your elbow? That just seems like

Summer: Yeah…

Lanae: Yeah?

Summer: It was an inconvenience

Lanae: Yeah

[1:14:05] Ginger: I think we can say this without, it’s not a spoiler, really, because they haven’t introduced it yet doesn’t mean it won’t happen but um, it’s not a storyline thing it’s a character thing and it, if they don’t do it, it’s fine. But if they do do it, then it’s not really a spoiler. So Mr. Willoughby, as we learn is, is from China and, as I said, he speaks Chinese. In the book, one of the things we learn about him very fast, very soon, which does not happen in this episode and may or may not happen in the future, we have no idea, is that he has a thing...it would have been here

Summer: I feel like they were going to have it in this series it would have been here, this is where they would have introduced it, they, because they already had him do

Ginger: I don’t think he has an elbow fetish, I just think they used that as a stand in, something like odd, right? An oddball thing for a foot thing. So yeah. So the reason I was saying it’s not really a spoiler, number one because it’s not a storyline thing. Of course in the book he had a foot fetish and it’s not necessarily incomprehensible because this is 18th century, well, 18th century earth and in China at that time, up until actually the early 20th century uh, foot binding was uh, not uncommon. Especially, well, especially for the upper class. And um, we don’t have much of a story and if you want to find out more about that you can go read the, the book.

Summer: So they replaced it with a, with a wenis fetish

Ginger: Huh?

Lanae: What

Summer: A wenis. This is your wenis

Lanae: What?! I’ve never heard it called that, ever.

Summer: It’s called the we, it’s a, it’s called a wenis.

Lanae: What are you talking about?

Ginger: That part of your elbow?

Summer: You’ve heard that, haven’t you, Ginger?

Ginger: No

Summer: Wenis?

Ginger: I’m not, I’m not saying it’s not called that, I’m saying I don’t think they’ve replaced one fetish with another. I think they used that weird elbow licking, elbow touching thing as a stand in to give us something that is weird rather than having, you know, afetish actually for feet. But I think you’re right, I think they gave us that rather than, even at, even at try to attempt the foot thing. Claire goes to introduce herself to Mr. Willoughby as Claire Randall but Jamie interrupts her and says she’s Claire Malcolm, his wife. Mr. Willoughby looks a bit confused. “Wife?” he asks. Jamie has to go take care of some business. He leaves Claire with Mr. Willoughby. We learn his real name is Yi Tien Cho. And I have the pronunciation-ish decent but not the um, tones. Because if you listen to him say it it’s, Mandarin’s a tonal language, he used tones to pronounce it, I did not. So, I defer to him, obviously.

Summer: Jamie, Jamie’s awful trusting. With the, with the amount of secrets he has...

Lanae: Seriously

Summer: ...that he doesn’t want Claire to know, he seems to keep leaving her with people who know his secrets (laughs)

Lanae: I know

Summer: Who could, one of whom is admittedly drunk and, and not of sound mind. Or judgment.

Ginger: And his name is actually quite beautiful. It means Leans Against Heaven.

Summer: What’s, what’s the Gaelic word, I want to know

Ginger: We’ll have to ask uh, À, À, Àdhamh

Lanae: Because he said he changed his name because it sounded like a coarse Gaelic word. Yi Tien Cho

Summer: It sounded like a coarse word. We’ll have to find out what that would be

[1:17:12] Ginger: Yeah, Jamie had said that, because it sounded like a coarse Gaelic word, Willoughby would work better. So he’s one of the people that Jamie renames. I don’t know how much we’ll get into that, but I know we’ve talked about that, in the books we talked about that a lot.

Lanae: Mm hmm

Ginger: It turns out that Jamie’s appointment is with an exciseman. A crooked one at that. Now, I, do we know his name yet? I know we know it by the, do we know it by the end?

Lanae: I think we know it by the end of the episode

Ginger: Okay, so we can say it now. It, okay, we’re not spoiling. It’s Mr. Percival. Okay, so Jamie pays him what he planned on paying him but Mr. Percival, meanwhile, has like, other ideas, he’s like, “Uh, no no no no no. It’s, it’s gone, the price has gone up.” They have an agreement. Mr. Percival knows about the smuggling and he keeps quiet, for a fee. But he now he wants to raise the fee because he believes, and of course he’s right, that Jamie’s customers now extend outside of Edinburgh and Jamie’s like, “Nope. I don’t know what you heard, but nope.” But, of course, they have and that’s more, more on that later. Back in the pub Mr. Willoughby explains how Jamie had rescued him. He calls him a true friend. And we hear “Comin Thro the Rye” again as Jamie returns. Now mis, this is something, I don’t know if I talked to you about it, Summer. I may have. But I thought about this a lot. Mr. Willoughby calls Claire something in Chinese and when Claire asks what it means Jamie answers before Mr. Willoughby can. Jamie says, “Honorable wife.” Now readers will know that that is not quite the complete translation

Summer: No

Ginger: But no spoilers. Can I just tell you, the writers are dancing around this like there’s no tomorrow. So of course Jamie can speak Chinese.

Lanae: Of course he can

Ginger: But, why not?

Lanae: Cause he’s superhuman.

Ginger: Totally. And just as it accompanied them into the tavern, “Comin Thro the Rye” accompanies them out and to the brothel. The woman we saw at the beginning of the episode is Madame Jeanne. And this is her brothel. Jamie introduces Claire to Madame Jeanne with, “Here’s my wife.” Now Madame Jeanne is surprised and not very happy, happy about this. And she’s also not impressed. And Claire’s all, “WTF?” (laughs) Not about the woman, necessarily, but about the place. She’s like, “Ex, what are we doing here?”

Summer: It was not a brothel where there were, I mean, there were rooms upstairs, don’t get me wrong, but they were just, people just doing it, like

Lanae: Out in the open

Summer: In the open, I mean it was, yeah

Ginger: Oh yeah. No, you’re right, you’re right

Lanae: Well and I’m sure, I’m, I, I was kind of, I think I may, did I talk to you about this?

Summer: I don’t know

Lanae: Or did I talk to Andy about it when I watched it with my husband? I was like, “Why, why is the,” cause I was like, “Why is the Madame like, so put out that he brought his wife?”

Summer: I think that she

Lanae: It’s not someplace you’d bring a wife? But what if wives are into that? What if you get a wife into that and they want to come watch?

Summer: Well, several things, one it’s a, we did talk about this, we talked about this. Because, no, I think it was a combination of things because she said, “You insult my girls by bringing another girl here, because this is a house full of girls, you don’t bring another girl here because there are plenty of girls here if you want a girl.”

Lanae: But then he says, “It’s my wife.”

Summer: Then he says, “It’s my wife,” and then she’s just like, “You’ve never told me about a wife. We’re business partners, I thought you, this was something you would tell me,” and not only that but, she clearly had a little bit of a crush on him.

Lanae: Hey, cute thang

Summer: You saw the way she like, wrapped that blanket around him

Lanae: So there were a few little, little mental mon, inner monologues, I’m sure, going through her head.

Summer: And, we talked about this too, the print shop was waybigger than I imagined it to be and way fancier than I imagined it to be in the book. It was beautiful but it was way, there was way more too it than I remembered in the book

Lanae: Also, I listened to that episode of you, of, uh, who was it that you had on that talked about the print shops and printing and, and the time? Um, and she said that a lot of them were these three floors and the top floor would be the sales floor, and that’s kind of how she said that a lot of the print shops were set up that one level was for printing, one was for sales, and then sometimes another level was for storage of product or, and/or sleeping and rest, and you know, living there.

Summer: Yeah. But, but he said, in the book, he was like, “I have a cot in the back,” like he’s got, yeah. I don’t know what you think of when you think of cots, but I’m imagining like, almost like a framed hammock kind of deal.

Lanae: Yeah, like an army cot or something

Summer: Not like, what looked like, yeah this was like, this looked like a ship’s berth, I mean it was like, it looked like, it looked, it was like a bed built into the wall with like, fancy hangings and all kinds of stuff, and to be honest it was just as nice if not nicer than the brothel. I, I would have rather have stayed at the print shop. Maybe the bed was smaller. I don’t know

Lanae: I think the bed was a lot smaller there. I think the bed there was like, big enough for one full grown, maybe not even a full grown dude to sleep like, completely stretched out. Cots back then were pretty freaking small cause people back then were generally smaller.

[1:22:10] Ginger: So Jamie has a room here? As you guys said, I mean, even though we talked about the, the cot room, at the, in the print shop, his room at the brothel was like, hecka nice

Lanae: Hecka nice

Ginger: It was huge!

Lanae: It was nice

Ginger: Exactly, it was mostly because it was huge

Lanae: It’s like a fort, it was like this big old bed with a little table and chairs

Summer: It was a very spacious brothel room.

Ginger: And he didn’t pay a ding dong cent for it. And he probably got free food. Of course, he had to do like, he was very illegal and in a dangerous occupation where if he got caught he could be hanged so there were tradeoffs, but um, or, you know, there was the danger inherent to that but

Summer: He pays for all of those things. He pays, he pays Madame Jeanne in, in liquor

Lanae: Product

Summer: And product

Ginger: It’s the opposite. She pays him to

Lanae: Yeah, she pays him in the room in order to, yeah. And he takes her product

Summer: My point, my point is, is it’s paid for. There’s an exchange happening, it’s not free

Lanae: There’s a fair exchange.

Ginger: Oh no, I’m not saying he’s not paying for it but I’m saying, what he does for it, even though, absolutely it’s tit for tat, they each benefit, his is the bigger, um,

Summer: Tit?

(Lanae laughs)

Ginger: Heh, pretty much. No, it’s the bigger tat. His is the bigger, uh, danger. Cause he’s the one who would be potentially hanged.

Lanae: Yeah, he’s the one smuggling. And I have to say, I have to give hi, Claire, like, kudos for like, he walked into a brothel and wasn’t like, “What the fuck’s going on, people?” Like, “Why did you bring me here? Why am I standing in here and why do you have a room here?” And she just kind of like, went with the flow

Summer: Until the, until they got upstairs

Ginger: And that’s the way to do it, absolutely

Lanae: Right, they, yes, she, but she waited til she got upstairs and she wasn’t rude about it she was like, “Can I, can we talk now about um, you know, why you have a room here?”

Summer: This thing here? The prostitutes in here?

Lanae: I mean, “What’s going on with this and why are you so familiar with the madam and,” you know? Like, she was trying to be all like, “I’m not judging you. I’m just curious and maybe we should talk about this.”

[1:24:09] Ginger: Well once they get up to the room she says, “So, um, you live in a brothel?”

Lanae: Yeah

Ginger: And uh, that’s how, it’s, a, very gentle way of starting that conversation

Summer: But it took her almost the entire episode to just come out and say, “Do you sleep with the whores here?” And, that’s literally the, the unspoken question she kept trying to ask him but not ask him. “Do you have sex with women here?” Like, it was, it was the hinting, the

Lanae: She kept, like, kind of hinting and trying to ask like, “Have you been with other women? What, what have you, you know, this, that, the other, I know you, blah blah blah blah blah.”

Ginger: She may have had trouble getting a question out but Jamie Fraser is the, not only king of men, he’s king of verbal evasiveness.

Lanae: Yes he is

Ginger: Homeboy takes like, half the episode to answer a question that he won’t answer. He, he will not answer and we, we’ll, we’ll get to it, it’s many times she tries to ask and he redirects. It’s ridiculous. So, Jamie tries to explain about the brothel. He says Madame Jeanne is actually his customer, not the other way around, to have a room there, not just because it’s, you know, gratis, but to have a room there as, cause he can, he has to sometimes come and go, it’s very convenient...

Lanae: Late at night

Ginger: ...um, to be able, to be able to, exactly, to be able to drop in

Lanae: And have food delivered to him at any time of night

Summer: And, and no one is going to look twice at a dude going into a brothel at any time of day

Ginger: That’s true. And, because his lifestyle, whatever this is, hint to what I said earlier, was meaning earlier, uh, this lifestyle of someone dropping in and coming out, coming in at night or all times of night or day does not quite equate the life of a printer, that we know of. So then he turns around to her and a little unfairly, I thought he was doing this to get out of having to discuss more of his own stuff right then. Now, this the first thing

Summer: And he’s like, “Why are you here?”

Lanae: Yeah

Ginger: Well, yeah, he goes to that. But he takes the spotlight off of himself and puts it onto her. Now, is it a fair question? Absolutely. But the timing, I mean, this is, this is probably the first, the first or second time that it happens. He turns to her and he says, “Sassenach, why have you come back? To be my wife or to bring me word of my daughter?”

Summer: Could you imagine if she’d been like...

Ginger: “Bye!” (laughs)

Summer: ...“Oh, just to give you word of your daughter. That’s it. I’m gonna go now.”

Lanae: “See ya! Peace! Peace out!”

Summer: That was the, that was like, the longest journey to give somebody paternity news, ever.

Ginger: I wonder if they did any kind of like, outtake with that, and, I wonder if Caitriona’s like, “Yeah, that’s it.” (laughing) I would love to see that. So Claire tells him about a young historian who’d helped her find him. Jamie says, “I’m no longer the man you once knew. You and I, we know each other even less now than we were first wed.” And that’s very true. But again, he’s (sigh) well he, I believe he was, if not directly deflecting here, he was kind of, again, trying to take, not trying, he was taking the spotlight off of himself and put it on her to ask her this question which is a fair question, but the time was, it just seemed like a little bit um, it was a little bit strong. It was almost, almost accusatory in a weird way. But what he says here is like, almost a warning. He’s like, or a hint. He’s like, “I’m no longer the man you once knew.” Just, you know, little things like, so not only taking the spotlight off him, he’s also dropping hints. And actually that’s true, the love theme comes up again right here. And they kiss again. And then there’s a knock on the door and it breaks the moment and this is their dinner. Their dinner is served. They eat and talk, talk and eat. We get Claire’s VO and of course this is a mirroring, with the food and the getting to know each other, it’s a mirroring of the wedding night. Claire’s still a lush, that hasn’t changed. “As we finished, the same thought was uppermost in both our minds.” Yeah, we know. Get to bed already. He asks her, “Will ye come to bed with me, then?” And I wrote, “I mean, is this a question?” (laughs)

Summer: She should have said, “To bed? To sleep?”

Ginger: That would’ve been funny, that would’ve been funny

Lanae: I have to ask it, at some point, I think it’s before they actually go to bed together, he says something to the effect of, or one of them says something to the effect of, you know, it’s, I think it’s after him saying, “I’m not the man I once knew,” something about, “I could be like,”  not evil, but “I could be some terrible human being,” basically. And the other one of them says, “I don’t know as I care.”

Ginger: That is before they kiss, that’s after they undress each other, or as they do. Yeah

Lanae: Oh and it’s after the, oh.

[1:28:35] Ginger: Thus commences the biggest tease of all three seasons. What did you ladies like most about the undressing part?

Summer: Sam’s ass

Lanae: Sam’s ass. Hands down.

Ginger: Oh, well that’s not, that’s after the undressing. I mean during the process of the slow part of take this off, take that off.

Summer: Zipper

Ginger: That was funny. That was funny

Lanae: I’m glad they kept that, cause that was in the book, wasn’t it?

Summer: Um, well her dress had a zipper

Lanae: Her dress had a zipper in the book, not her undergarments, but still

Summer: I, I enjoyed trying to understand how she made that undergarment because there was like, pieces of bra, there was like, ties and a zipper, it was, there was a lot going on with that...

Lanae: There was a lot

(Ginger laughing)

Summer: ...with her makeshift corset

Lanae: It really helps to have a dress form.

Summer: Yeah

Lanae: It really does. When you’re working on something for yourself, it’s like

Summer: Cause you don’t want to have to keep taking it off and putting it on

Lanae: I can’t take it off

Summer: You can’t pin it on yourself

Lanae: I can’t pin something on myself. There’s no freaking way. I can’t pin something on myself. You have to have a dress form and, and adjust it to be your size and then pin it on the dress form, that’s the only way to do it. And she had one. We saw it.

Ginger: So these people are already beautiful. And they look even better by candlelight. I mean. Everyone does, but them? Oh, good lord. So I like how she unbuttons his shirt and I love the, I think it, ah, it’s some stringed plucking or pluckable instrument. Something that’s plucked that is used for playing out the very basics of the theme.

Summer: Was it a chicken?

(Lanae laughs)

Ginger: Summer. No. Needless to say

(Summer makes weird chicken bocking sound singing the love theme)

Ginger: Look, that was all your fault. Needless to say, the love theme, is, as I said, all over

(Lanae and Summer laughing)

Lanae: Swedish Chef is what I’m thinking of

(Summer making Swedish Chef noises)

Ginger: (laughing) Is that what it sounded like?

Lanae: Gonzo, The Muppets, I’m thinking of the chickens with the Gonzo, the singing chickens. Sorry, I’m sorry

[1:30:28] Ginger: It’s interesting to see that Claire made her own bum roll as well. She did a pretty good job.

Lanae: Yeah, we, we discussed that too, we were like, “Wow, she really went whole hog on this whole costume,” yeah.

Ginger: All the way. So as, as you guys said, Jamie’s like, “How do I do this?” and she, edsu, educates him on zippers. (laughs)

Lanae: It was cute

Ginger: And finally they are nekkies.

Summer: You notice how, how much more quickly the outfit went on the following day, the fact that it was a zipper

Lanae: Oh yeah.

Summer: Because like, remember when they like, real time dress her in like, episode 1 or 2, dressing her and all this, this, the, the

Lanae: And it took forever. The dress montage

Summer: Yeah, and the like, all of the

Lanae: And it was a montage so they don’t show it real time.

Summer: Yeah. All of the ties that had to be tightened and this one she literally just walks to the corner of the room, puts her little corset on, goes zip and she’s like, ready for the day

Lanae: I was a little obsessed with how well they did her makeup. Like, and, and what they did with her hair to make her look, she doesn’t look old. Granted, I would never say Caitriona looked old. She looks gorgeous no matter what. But I don’t, I couldn’t tell, cause I know, I’ve, I’ve read interviews and stuff about the makeup that they did to make them look older and they both talk about prosthetic, which prosthetic could be anything from like, a huge chunk of like, latex or whatever they use to…

Summer: Or goiter

Lanae: (laughs) Yeah. Or goiter. Right? Um, but that’s like, under his scarf, so you can’t even see that. No, I was like, cause they make her face look slightly softer than she did last season. I don’t know if you picked up on that but she looks like around her eyes and on her like, under, like on the sides of her chin. I would never say she looks jowly in any way, shape, or form. But she definitely has a slightly older look to her and it’s a subtle enough job, to me, that I felt like they aged her without making her look old. You know what I mean?

Ginger: Yes, and I’d be interested, interested to know, I, I, well, as I watch, I may not go back and watch this one, but as I watch new or, new, yeah, forthcoming episodes I will definitely look for that

Lanae: In last season she looked like, not that, not that her skin didn’t look great, cause it did, her skin has looked great all season, but um, last season, I don’t know, like her face, and part of it could have been like, Gin, Summer suggested um, her hairstyle, like, it pulled her hair back a lot tighter than it was last season, her hair was a lot bigger and poofier like, for um, the, you know, it was very, you know, romantic looking, you know. The big, big tendrils and things coming down. This season it’s pulled, you know, at least in this particular episode it’s pulled back tighter um, so I don’t know if it makes her face look a little rounder or what it does, cause like, I mean she’s very um, she’s a mo, she was a model. She looks, she has those very defined cheekbones and chin bones and her eyes, I mean, she’s beautiful, and she still looks gorgeous but they did just like, these very subtle things with her makeup that she definitely looks aged. You know what I mean?

Ginger: Yeah, I

Lanae: Without looking old

Ginger: No no no, not old, but you’re right. But see, some trace of time

Lanae: Yes

Ginger: The thing that I think is funny that I don’t see, and it could be because we’re back in, I mean, the 18th century where it’s much more, it’s almost, it’s yeah, has to be, at least for the show, maybe not in real life, but uh, anything we see, it’s going to be natural light, either sun or candlelight. I guess natural light is not candlelight, but you know what I’m saying. Either sunlight or candlelight and so it’s going to be very uh, natural or very soft. Um

Lanae: She definitely looked more like, harsh looking in the ‘60s

Ginger: Yes. And I think the reason, and

Lanae: More severe makeup and her hair and everything was much more severe looking. And it, and that makes, and that makes her look older on its own

Ginger: And this season, too, and all of the first part of 301 through, 301 through 305 she looked, or at, basically any times in the ‘60s she looked older. She looks older than she does when she go back, when she goes back

Lanae: I think she looks way better when she goes back…

Ginger: Oh  yeah, absolutely

Lanae: ...but still has, she still has these subtle things about her face that I can’t quite put my finger on that make her look

Summer: Don’t put your finger on her face

Lanae: I don’t wanna put her fa, my, no, I would never put my fingers on a person’s face without asking permission first, that’s so disturbing. Don’t touch me, don’t touch me, Summer (Summer laughs)

Ginger: So one of the things that I saw that I don’t notice and it could be because we haven’t seen up close close yet or it could be because of the makeup, I don’t know. But one of the things that looked like, at the end of season two when they, when she was, when they went to the stones and they saw um, Geillis go through and they saw her and she was like, uh, her, uh, Brianna’s like, “You have to go back!” And she, you know what I’m saying? Uh, the very, the very last shot of her where the, the music came up and the, the sun was in her eyes and she was like, trying to keep her eyes open, all of that, beautiful, beautiful shot. In that episode or in that, maybe not the last shot, but as we look at her and she has whatever facial expressions she has, you see a little more natural, not, I’m not saying bad at all, but it looked like she had almost had on...had on. That’s funny, Ginger. Almost looked like they had like, some, is there some kind of makeup effect where like a, like crackle?

Lanae: Yes

Ginger: Where you like, put it on the skin and it just kind of like gives you a little bit of, um, a little bit of lines

Lanae: So they paint on, like, it’s like a latex type of material like, around the eyes and when you, when your eyes naturally squint it crinkles up more and it makes you look older around the eyes and they have it on Jamie, I can totally tell on Jamie.

Ginger: Well it looked like she had it, I remember, at the end of season two. I don’t see it, but it could be, at least in the, in the 18th century season three, I don’t see it yet but it could be because we, we haven’t seen her up close squinty eyed

Lanae: I just, I just think whatever prosthetic, quote unquote, that they have on them is very subtle. It’s like, like, like you’ve said, like they’ve painted on some extra layers to give bulk to their skin to maybe make it wrinkle a little here and there  or maybe look a little puffier under the eyes or wherever, it’s very subtle, it doesn’t look like, they don’t look old. But you can tell there’s, I don’t know. I was just totally obsessed with it because I was like, I could not put my finger on exactly what it was that makes her look older because she still looks great but she definitely has, she looks aged. They did a good job

[1:37:09] Ginger: Now I know we’re not gonna hear from anyone from the show, but if there’s anyone who’s a professional makeup artist or has a lot of experience with prosthetics or anything like that and you guys, even if you don’t have insider knowledge, if you watched the episodes, if you have the experience or the knowledge that you can eyeball it, and you can say, “Oh, it looks like they may have done X,” we would love to hear because this is fascinating to us. So, as I said before, I’ll break back into it. Aaaand, nekkies. So, he totes appreciates her. Uh, and it’s so funny and it’s endearing and understandable. Claire’s never been shy like this before, at least not in front of us. But of course, this isn’t normal for Claire. She is, she doesn’t always, it’s not every day that you take a two hundred year trip back in time to the person you haven’t seen in twenty years

Summer: It’s not?

Lanae: You know, just last weekend I…

Summer: I did that Tuesday

Lanae: ...went through the stones and then came back, so, it’s all good

Ginger: (laughing) You stop it. So she covers herself and um, she’s a little, you could tell she’s uncomfortable and he assures her that

Lanae: Cause he just stares at her, he like, stares at all, like with a jaw, like his mouth is like, open practically and he’s just staring. So what would you do?

Ginger: Oh, uh, first of all, I, I don’t think I could just stand there in the first place. And he assures her...

Summer: Yeah, I’d be running around the room blowing out candles

Ginger: Summer

Lanae: Turn off the lights! Quick, quick! Turn them off!

Ginger: Oh lord. Get out of my bedroom. He assures her, oh gosh. He assures her that she’s the most beautiful woman he’s ever seen. And then she helps him remove his shirt. So definitely, definitely a mirror of their wedding night. I love the swelling of the theme here and how it scoops, I have to say, Lanae, did you notice this it’s, it’s not just like it’s, it’s not just the theme. It’s the, it’s the slowed down theme to make it grander it’s more uh, not huge orchestral but it’s more instruments than normal, I think, but it was slower, as I said, but, when it, when they get to the point where they’re just about to like, make it to the bed, the music goes like this, I’m like, “You are funny Bear.” It’s like, normal, here’s normal uh, theme. (singing) Right? This is how it went. (sings slower) I mean it was like (sings even slower with a sliding note) It was like the biggest scoop ever (laughs). I was like, “You go, Bear. That’s hysterical.” I don’t think anyone else noticed, I mean maybe you noticed but didn’t put a name to it, but, I’m not distracted like, I still enjoy the story, I still watch them, but I hear that and I’m like, “That’s hysterical.” He put the world’s biggest scoop in there

Lanae: Oh my god

Ginger: Oh, it was so funny. Sorry. Okay, I enjoyed it. And then they smack heads

Lanae: Oh my god. Can I just say that them smacking heads was like, (laughs) I laughed out loud, literally, at that because I was like, “Who the hell hasn’t had that happen to them?” If they’re ha, like, especially when it’s like, with someone you haven’t been with before it’s like, you’re, you’re not quite like, in sync (laughs) in bed yet, and you’re like, you’ve, oh my god. I’ve totally been there where you smack heads, or like, you whack your face on, on their nose or your forehead into their nose and you’re like, I’ve totally been there

Ginger: Isn’t something like this from the book? Isn’t there a funny?

Lanae: I don’t recall if they got, I don’t recall. I’d have to look it up

Summer: I, it, it wouldn’t surprise me

Lanae: But they did it like, twice. That’s the funny part is they smacked, like he, his head smacked into her nose and then they get, get going again and then they (laughs) he zigs when she zags and it’s like, it just doesn’t quite happen again. Cracks me up.

Ginger: It was pretty funny

Lanae: It was very cute

[1:40:54] Ginger: And then they get down to business. As Lanae said, this is, it’s not only funny, like, what happened was funny. It’s, it’s so realistic. It is so realistic that, that these funny things happen in those intimate moments  and that’s important because it’s, it makes it even more real. It’s not just like, “Oh, let’s go do this, lah, kissy face.” No. It’s, it’s real.

Lanae: And it’s like, perfectly choreographed sex scene and it’s like, and I’m sure they totally perfectly choreographed this whole sex scene, including like all the bumps and like

Summer: They had to choreograph the bumps or they would’ve really gotten hurt

Lanae: They had to choreograph the sex or she could’ve like, really broken her nose. But um, I like that they put that stuff in there cause it made it a lot more realistic and awkward and like, “Okay we’re, we’re trying to find each other again,” kind of thing, you know?

Ginger: And Claire is realizing the thing she’s only dreamt about for twenty years is happening or about to happen. And uh, she’s like, did you guys take, I mean, obviously, besides the fact that she just wants him, um. Did you guys think that part of her wanting, asking him, telling him, “Don’t be gentle,” was like, “Look, you need to,” and it’s gonna sound weird maybe, like, “Make a freaking, make a freaking mark on me. I want, I want to feel this.”

Summer: This, this was the initial carving that we lost in the first season

Ginger: Maybe so

Lanae: Yeah

Summer: He was carving his initials with his penis

(Lanae laughs)

Ginger: Oh gosh

Lanae: (singing) Let’s get it on

Summer: On her cervix

Lanae: Yeah

Ginger: Summer! You already went there, you don’t have to keep going there

(laughing)

Ginger: No, on her tonsils. What? I mean, goodness

Summer: And that was the scene they didn’t include

(laughing)

Ginger: She wants to push away all the memories of the past years without him. Of course, not her daughter, but of, the, of, of not being with him. She’s quite vocal. This, uh...

Summer: She always is

Lanae: Yeah

Ginger: ...that’s not new. Yeah, she always is. But she, she seems extra vocal this time. And it makes, it makes sense

Summer: Unless she’s self-pleasuring in a bed with Frank. Then she’s quiet as a churchmouse

Lanae: Yes. Well, yeah. You would be

[1:43:00] Ginger: So, um, we don’t need to break it down, but what did you guys think about the scene?

Lanae: I thought it was good. I thought they did a very good job of it

Ginger: Yeah, me too. What about you, Sum?

Summer: I was less annoyed by her nipples than Geneva’s

Ginger: Oh lord. It’s cuddle time afterwards and uh, it’s a nice cuddle and as it gets later he talks about what he loves about her and he talks about her ivory skin. Now, I, she’s so, I think, she, Caitriona, Claire, eh, not so much. Caitriona, Caitriona’s so brave, at least I think it’s bravery, and maybe it’s not, but she is sitting there, love scene is, it is what it is, right? You gotta do it, you gotta show stuff, you gotta act a certain way. You’re in bed and having like, a moment or having like, you know, just, like, uh, uh, a dialogue. She’s laying there and that sh, uh, sheet is only up to her waist. I’m like, “She’s just, like, out there.” I’m like, I, I, could you guys lay like that? Just with everything out there?

Lanae: I think, you know, probably in that kind of situation where um, they have a, a limited crew when they film scenes like that anyway. And you’re trying to just get the scenes done, I don’t know. It’s probably, I don’t know. I haven’t been in that situation. All I can say is like, I’ve been in the situation where I’ve been in a child birthing room and so many people come in to stick their hand up  your hooha to check you that you’re just like, “Anybody else that walks in the door? Anybody else? Anybody else want to stick their hand up, anybody else wanna take a look? I’m all, if it helps the, get the kid out, I’m good.” Like, anybo, it, you kind of lose this whole feeling of, I don’t know, um, modesty (laughs) you kind of are like, whatever. It doesn’t, it gets to a point where you’re like, “It’s just human bodies doing what they do and it’s not a big deal.” There are, there are lots of people I know who would never ever think to like, pose naked or for a picture of painting or, let alone do a sex scene in a show, so. I think it just depends, person to person. I think I could probably do it, but

Summer: I think it just depends on how cold the room is

Lanae: Yeah, I’m sure they kept the room pretty warm.

Summer: I’m sure they did. I’m just saying, if it was a cold room I’d be like, “I would like a blanket.”

Lanae: Well she had one up to her waist

Summer: If it was super cold I would

Lanae: She wasn’t like, cutting glass with them or anything

Summer: No, that’s what I’m saying

Lanae: So it must have been warm in there, so there you go

Summer: Exactly. But that, you asked if I would have a problem with it and I would only have a problem

Lanae: So if the room was warm, Summer’d be okay

Summer: I’d be fine

Lanae: There you go. What about you, Ginger? (laughs)

[1:45:25] Ginger: I asked the question, I don’t answer the question

Lanae: Oh, okay. Alright. Get it

Ginger: Then Jamie says, “It’s always been forever for me, Sassenach.”

Summer: Except for that time. In a cave

(Lanae laughs)

Ginger: Stop.

Lanae: He was thinking of Claire

Ginger: And in that room

Summer: (laughing) That almost makes it worse

Ginger: And talking about the, the doing it, Claire’s like, “It’s riding, it’s like riding a bicycle, I suppose.” And a minute or half a minute later he’s like, “What’s that?”

Lanae: “What’s a bicycle?” (laughs)

Ginger: And she just says, “Oh, I just mean, XYZ.” She doesn’t actually define it, she was just like, “I just mean that you don’t forget how to do it.” And this is where her question that she has asked at least once if not twice before comes back. She says, she wants to know what he does besides work as a printer. And I wrote, “Dude is evasive.” He gets up and goes to eat. As he does he’s bathed in golden light from the candles. Over and over we see Jamie, again, even though they don’t say it, from the book Jamie is um…

Lanae: Golden god

Ginger: ...symbolically, yes, symbolically the sun.

Summer: I thought for a hot second we were gonna get some junk shots cause he almost turned, and then...

(Ginger laughing)

Lanae: Yeah! It was one of those times where I thought, “Oh, oh!” No. No.

Summer: ...he, and then he surreptitiously sat behind the table and I was like, “Aww.”

Lanae: No, we got the side of his thigh again!

Summer: We did. I mean, it’s a nice thigh

Ginger: I hope we don’t ever see Jamie junk. Cause

Lanae: Dude. We see like, women’s

Ginger: No no no, I’m not talking about fairness, I’m not talking about fairness

Lanae: There are so many bad merkins, like on Game of Thrones it’s like, unbelievable. We see so much of that there, but we don’t see any man junk

[1:47:03] Ginger: After seeing Tobias’ or, sorry, BJR’s man junk it’s, or junk, it’s, it is what it is, I’m not saying it’s bad, it’s, I’m not, not being prudish about it, it’s not that like, “Oh my gosh, don’t show that!” No. It’s just like, seeing, having that be, I think, the only junk we’ve seen, I think?

Lanae: Yeah, I think it is

Summer: All they show is rapist penis. They don’t show like, lover penis

Lanae: Yeah, yeah. Well, cause, I think we’ve discussed this before

Ginger: It’s a very in your face thing, and I think that’s making it shocking, even more

Lanae: Well, I think, I think the male penis on television naked is used as a more aggressive…

Ginger: Oh. Yeah

Lanae: ...type of scene.

Ginger: That’s fair

Lanae: You know what I mean? It seems like most of the times that you see an actual male penis on TV or in film it’s like, in an aggressive way. Whether, and it’s not even erect, cause it’s not even allowed, right? Um, but it’s, it’s, it’s always shown in some aggressive situation, at least the ones I’ve seen in the last couple of years. People feel like, traumatized by it, so (laughs)

Summer: I guess, but there’s like, it’s like the most un, there’s nothing aggressive about a flaccid penis, if you think about it

Lanae: No, there really isn’t, that’s what I don’t get. That’s what I don’t get, cause to me it’s like, meh.

(laughing)

Summer: It’s like, “Awww.” That’s what I think.

Ginger: Jamie mentions prison and she says, yes, she knew that because of this young historian dude she mentioned. And then she goes back to what he does. See? They keep, they keep getting off topic because of Jamie.

Lanae: Evade, evade, evade

Ginger: He says that he’s a printer. Now more and more about printing. And he says that he’s been arrested and his premises has been seized twice but it always gets back, comes back to him. “I did not come here to make love to you once.” Good to know, Claire

Lanae: Yeah, thanks

Ginger: Because we, we have a show to watch

Summer:  They’re gonna cut this season real short

Ginger: We are happy you are willing to continue. Whuh-whoh. He says he’s afraid to lose her. Listen to this. She says, “You won’t lose me.” Kiss, kiss, kiss. “Unless you do something immoral.”

Summer: Right?

Ginger: I  missed that like, the first three viewings

Summer: Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, say no more

Lanae: Really? I didn’t miss it the first time

Ginger: Oh my gosh. So he stops and looks at her and there’s a beat. There’s a heck of a beat

Summer: There’s a long pause

Lanae: He’s like, “Uhhh.”

Ginger: (laughing) Exactly.

Summer: He’s like, “Ha. Hehe. Hm.”

Ginger: She notices the pause and she pulls away a bit. “Is there something you, else you haven’t told me?” she asks. Yep, he’s a smuggler, he says, and that is alcohol basically. Whisky, cognac, brandy, rum, French wine, etcetera. His spiel is they store the liquor there uh, below Madame Jeanne’s facility. She buys some, he gives her some, and it stays there until they can ship it on or pass it on to, uh, to buyers. No, he doesn’t take any of the whores as payment.She says, “Not that it’s any of my business,” and he says, “Isn’t it, then?”

Lanae: It isnow

Ginger: So

Lanae: But it wouldn’t have been before. I don’t think. It wouldn’t have been her business

Ginger: I wrote, “Hmm. You’re being awfully interesting there, dude.” Finally he says he’s a smuggler. But that was a lot, so in this episode of him basically keeping things from her he tells her about Willie

Lanae: A huge, that’s a huge book, that’s a huge book change. But

Ginger: Totally. But he like, doesn’t, on and on and on and on and on, he doesn’t tell her and he finally tells her that he’s a smuggler.

Lanae: I’m, my question is, did he really think she was gonna like, be like, “What?! You’re a smuggler?!” Or did he just feel like he needed to give her something? To tell her something that was, cause, you know, she said, made the whole immoral comment and he paused and so he knew he needed to tell her something that she might construe as immoral

Ginger: I think both. He needed to say something and, what was your second one, Lanae?

Lanae: He like, he just, he needed to say something or did he really think like, “Oh, smuggling’s immoral and she would,” I don’t think she would have had, I don’t think in his mind, I think he would have known that she would not have had any sort of moral objection to him being a smuggler.

Summer: They were basically doing that in France.

Lanae: Yeah, they were doing that in France. So, exactly

Summer: And they were plotting to kill... (laughs)

Lanae: Yeah

Summer: ...kill the Bonnie Prince

Lanae: They were, well, they were considering plotting to kill him. They were trying to keep him from getting there. Um, so yeah, I, I think he felt like, “I gotta give her something,” cause he made that beat and that pause so she knows that he’s keeping something from her so he felt like, “Well, the smuggling thing, I can throw that out there and tell her that, that’ll placate her for now.”

Ginger: So, they do it again but it’s less harried and the theme is very themey wemey, as I already said everything else

Lanae: Speaking of hairy, he has hair on his chest now. They let him have hair on his chest this time around and she even, I commented to it, to Summer I’m like, (gasp) “They let him have hair on his chest!” Cause it drives me nuts when men have no hair on, when they wax guys’ chests for films to make them look more shiny and like, muscled. I can see your guy’s muscles like, through chest hair. It’s fine. It’s, as long as the chest hair’s like neat and tidy and not looking like a fur rug, I’m okay with it, I like a little chest hair, it looks manly to me. But like, he had no chest hair the first two seasons. And now he’s got this little bit of chest hair and like a little happy trail and I’m like

Summer: But that, that’s also an age thing because I know that my ex-husband when, when we got together had like, one.

Lanae: One chest hair. You know, that’s true

Summer: And then as he got older he accumulated more. But it was just like, one

Lanae: That’s true. That’s true

Summer: So, that’s how they chose to age, they aged him on his chest

Lanae: Jamie was only what? Twenty one when they got married? Right? Because he was

Summer: Twenty three

Lanae: Oh, he was twenty three when they got married?

Ginger: Twenty three

Summer: Yeah

Lanae: Okay so, there you go

Ginger: Can I just say, this was one of the easiest episodes to take notes for, even though it was longer. There was so much nookie. (laughing)

Lanae: “And then they have sex again.”

Ginger: It was easy to just sit back and enjoy. Exactly. And, number three. And number eight. I’m just kidding. We see, as they continue to explore each other, we see his long thigh scar. And I love seeing this. Not because I want to see anything near the junk but it’s, again, it’s from the books and I love seeing, I hope we get the story of how that came about. After, uh, besides the injury, I wanna, I hope, I want to hear about Jenny um, I hope they keep that. Of course uh, this was the one caused by BJR at Culloden that Claire doesn’t necessarily know that part yet. “I will never leave you again.” She says this to him. But he tells her she was right to leave, for Bree. “You gave me a child, Claire. She’s alive, safe. Because of her we will live forever, you and I.” That is beautiful.

Lanae: Mm hmm

[1:54:09] Ginger: Claire, just as they, before they end this scene there

Summer: She’ll never leave him until he tells her to stay put and then she’s gonna immediately walk away

Lanae: Yeah! (laughs) Typical Claire fashion. She’ll get herself in trouble when he tells her to stay put

Ginger: Did you guys note that, obviously he brings her up so right there as this, as that part, or that scene, that little scene with, after they make love, ends. Claire is, and he like settles right down to sleep and she’s not

Lanae: Yeah

Ginger: She’s thinking about Bree. She’s got tears in her eyes. That was hard, that was, that was rough

Lanae: I noticed, I think that was the scene where I noticed that they kept the scars on his hands. I saw these dark lines on his hands, I’m like, “What the heck is on his hand?” And Summer’s like, “Um, hello? She saved his hand and those are the scars from the surgery,” and I was like, “Oh, yeah. I totally forgot about that.” (laughs)

Summer: They were in season one

Lanae: Cause they were like these straight lines right down the tops of his fingers, across the knuckles and I, and they were like these dark shadowed marks and I was just like, confused, like, “What the heck does he have all over his hands?” Cause in the earlier scenes, I didn’t notice while he was working with the printing press, I think I need to watch it again, as to whether or not they had that on his hands. I did notice like, his fingernails had like, ink

Ginger: I forbid you, do not ever watch it again, Lanae, ever

Lanae: I noticed they had, like, he had like, ink in his fingernails and stuff like that, which I thought was cool that they put ink and stuff all over his hands. But um, I didn’t notice the scars at that time. I only noticed them during the sex scene. Cause I wasn’t distracted by clothes, you know…

Summer: When you’re looking at him

Lanae: ...I was just like, all I saw was him and his body. And his hands

[1:55:41] Ginger: The next morning Jamie, the creeper, is watching her sleep. Was it just me, or that when she wakes up and says she wanted to see if you were really there and he says, “Maybe I’m a ghost,” and then, “I could watch you for hours, Sassenach,” did you guys think about the ghost in season one?

Lanae: I do now. I do now that you, now that you mention, now that you mention it that makes sense that he says that. That’s kind of obvious little, little nod, hint hint, nudge nudge, say no more, say no more.

Ginger: So they, they don’t know, they still don’t know what it is between them but they do agree that it’s rare. Especially now that Jamie, cause, remember in the beginning it was Claire that had had more experience, and now, that we know of, well, we don’t know what Claire did or didn’t do

Lanae: I get the feeling she didn’t do anything with anyone after she tried to initiate with Frank

Ginger: No no no, not after, before she married Frank the first, before the war

Lanae: I get, I get a feeling he was her first ever, her first everything

Ginger: Okay, so then she’s, well, okay. I guess there is only a third man that we know of and that’s uh, the king.

Lanae: Oh, yeah. Let’s not talk about that

Summer: That was really just the tip

Lanae: That was just really like, quick, in and out, that didn’t really count. I don’t count that

Summer: It’s ruined the name Leroi for me.

Lanae: I’ve had that kind of experience before and I don’t count it (laughs)

Ginger: Oh gosh. So they don’t, they don’t know what it is between them but now that they both have more life and romantic and sexual experiences they believe even more now that it is exceedingly rare. They don’t have to rush. They have this room to themselves for as long as they want it, or it’s his room, excuse me. She asks if he ever fell in love with anyone else after she left and he says no. And they’re just about to go at it again when there’s another knock. It’s breakfast. He says, “Come back later!” And uh, “Do you want to eat?”

Lanae: Oh yeah, this is (laughs). And then he starts to go downtown. (laughs) Yeah, that was, that was quaint. That was very cute

Summer: That was, that was me shaking my head. I was like, “Ugh.”

Lanae: I, cause I, seriously, they said the lines and he starts to head downtown and I literally turned over to Summer and I was like, “Did he just say that?! Did she just ask him?! And then he went? He did! Oh my god!”

Ginger: So later he’s dressed and she’s still in bed. He has to take care of some business. He reminds her she’s Mrs. Malcolm there in Edinburgh. And we all laugh after he says, “You’ll stay here til I return.” (laughs) Yeah right. That sounds familiar

Lanae: We’ve already discussed it

Ginger: Uh, she says, “My legs are like, my legs are like Jell-O.” And he says, “Jell-O?” And then goes on. Like, poor Jamie, he’s like, she’s throwing all of these things at him that he just doesn’t understand

Lanae: Way over his head.

Ginger: She turns over to sleep some more and then uh, later on she’s up and eating in the room and a young man comes in. It’s a young blonde man. And he looks at her like, “Uh, are you Mrs. Malcolm’s woman?” (laughs)

Lanae: Mister

Ginger: And it’s Young Ian! He’s looking for Mr. Malcolm. Claire introduces herself as Ian, as his, Young Ian’s, aunt. And asks him how old he is and we learn he is sixteen. I thought in the book he was fourteen. Am I wrong?

Summer: He was, they, they aged him up.

Lanae: I think they aged him, yeah, I think they aged him up a little more.

Ginger: Okay

Lanae: I don’t know if they’ll even bother with what happens in the book with him in the whore house. Cause he’s all upset about, you know, everything going on that they, they haven’t even delved into yet. They, they totally skipped over, remember the, we talked about how they

Summer: I just feel like that scene they totally…

Lanae: Threw the scene away

Summer: ...I, that scene made me sad. Because one of, one of my favorite scenes in the book is the, a case of the, the the, of mistaken identity where in the course of the conversation that  Claire tries to have with him when he bolt, when he comes into the room he thinks that she is a whore who’s had sex with both her uncle, his uncle and his father and he’s like

Lanae: And he storms out

Summer: He storms out! And she’s like, “But, wait, eh!” And then, you know, it’s so funny

Lanae: And that whole comedy of errors that happens because of it and

Ginger: Yes. And we don’t get the healthy balls so um, so obviously they’re, what do we learn that we can mention. Um, this is why these episodes are gonna be so long. It’s not just like, “Let’s talk about the episode!” It’s like, as we go further we’re gonna see what they don’t include and we, we don’t have to mention everything, but if it’s a big thing like, the Willie change, right? If it’s a big change we can mention it because it’s not a spoiler, it’s just a difference and uh, it will bring ours and other will, well ours is already there, other people’s attention to see, I wonder how it’s gonna, you know, how it’ll pan out. So since we didn’t, you guys are right, since it didn’t  happen like the book in that, in those scenes

Lanae: He didn’t storm out. He just kinda was like, “Oh, he’s not here? Okay, see ya. Peace.”

Summer: He’s like, “Oh, okay. Gotta go.”

Ginger: Well, it says, and since we didn’t have Willoughby that, I think what we’re seeing, so since we don’t have Willoughby with the foot fetish, we don’t have Willoughby that gets around as much, at least it’s so far, as Willoughby in the books. Well, obviously, as soon as we learned that Gary Young was cast as Mr. Willoughby we knew that he was obviously gonna be there. And it seems like what they’re doing is setting him up to be, the Willoughby character, a little bit more gentle? Not that Willoughby in the book is ferocious, he, he was a character, he like, leapt off the page

Lanae: They just, I think they streamlined him, like streamlined his character a lot to be more digestible for the average viewer.

Ginger: Yes. I think what they’re doing, well actually, yeah, kind of like what they did with Geneva to sidestep, even if it wasn’t the reason, uh, an effect, or an outcome of them handling the Geneva scenes as they did is that they got rid of, they just sidestepped, they avoided all of the controversy. So I’m wondering if, if making him a little simpler, not simpler in mind, I don’t mean like stupider

Lanae: They just smooth, smoothed out his edges more, you know what I mean?

Ginger: Yes. And, by doing that, they, at least not yet, he’s also less of a caricature.

Lanae: Yes

Ginger: So he’s less of a caricature, uh, which obviously would be the way he like, he did acrobats, I mean, come on. Um, ac, acrobatics and then uh, the foot thing and, you know, the way he dressed because he, he dressed, he dressed like someone in Edinburgh. He did not dress like a Chinese man.

Lanae: Yeah

Ginger: Yeah. There’s big changes. I, I think appropriate changes, but it’s interesting. Now after Claire says to Young Ian that she’s his aunt, or aunt (pronounced “ahnt”), he says, “But you’re dead!” And then he tells her some of the people back, but he accepts it really quickly. And he tells her that some of the people um, called her a white lady and maybe even a fairy, back near his home. She says, “Actually, after Culloden I went to the colonies.” And yes, she’s back. He takes a beat or seven and then says he’s pleased to meet her. “Uncle Jamie’s wife.” (laughs) Like why couldn’t he call her aunt, maybe not auntie, but why couldn’t he call her Aunt Claire? Young Ian definitely has something in, on his mind, regarding Claire. And then he leaves. Claire is hungry. She goes downstairs to find food and joins the hoors at table.

Summer: This was from the chapter entitled “Whore’s Brunch.”

Ginger: Oh yeah. That was cool. I’m so glad they kept it, it was, I loved it.

Lanae: I was glad they kept it to because I mean, some of the lines that they say to her, I mean so much of this dialogue is directly from the book, it’s awesome. And they kept the whore’s names Dorcas, I mean, it’s awesome.

Ginger: They uh, welcome her, you know, pretty, they welcome her nicely and uh, they say, “Oh, you’re older than the, than the normal noob.” (laughs) And they say, “Oh, you have nice bubbies.” And uh, yeah, Lanae’s right, it is the hoor’s names are, that we’re given are Dorcas, Peggy, and Molly. And in case

Lanae: (singing) And Peggy.

Ginger: Just in case

Lanae: Sorry

Ginger: And who? (all singing) And Peggy. I knew, I, I thought the same thing. I just didn’t write it. “And in case you want to soak your parts, Claire,” Claire tries to tell them what stops pregnancies. And we get the word uh, basically has, how to prevent a kittlin. That just made me think of chitlin. (Lanae laughs)

Summer: I thought of kittens

Lanae: Me too, I thought of kittens.

Ginger: Oh. Oh, okay.

Lanae: Which is all the same

Ginger: The best line of the, maybe the whole season so far, and of this episode is, ‘You stick that way up in your nether mouth, you’ll get no squeaker.”

Lanae: Oh yeah, that was a good line, too. That was kind of a disturbing (laughs)

Summer: That description, the image that came with that

Lanae: Of my, of my girly parts, I would not call it my nether mouth. Ever. Like, ever.

Summer: No wonder people thought that it had teeth

Lanae: I know! God, that’s disturbing. Nether mouth. Blech. Gives me  the shivers just to think about it

Ginger: And then she gets a great, a great tip. Put a finger up the bum and you’ll be done, he’ll be done more quickly.

Lanae: I liked that part too.

Ginger: That was funny

Lanae: (laughs) Stick the finger up there. That was good. And that was from the book

Ginger: Isn’t that from the book? Yeah

Lanae: That’s straight from the book too.

Ginger: Madame Jeanne is not amused to find Claire there with her other hoors

Summer: Well she thinks Jamie’s gonna be super pissed off at her that, that his wife

Lanae: She does, she thinks

Ginger: Exactly. Oh yeah, it’s not for Claire’s sake, it’s for, it’s because she’s, not scared, but she doesn’t want to piss off Jamie because she likes him and wants to keep his

Lanae: And Claire was like, nice about it. She’s like, “Hey thanks for the chat and the food, ladies. And the tips. Thanks for the tips.”

Summer: Sorry, Dorcas

Ginger: Exactly

Lanae: Thanks for the tip, Dorcas

Ginger: And uh, she rushes her and is, she goes back upstairs. And Claire does go back upstairs and back in the room she enters to find some strange man going through Jamie’s things. There’s a little bit of dialogue that ensues like threats made on, on both sides and then he grabs her and starts to choke her and we go to black

Lanae: And tries to rape her, cause that’s how it’s gotta be

Summer: There, there hasn’t been enough rape this season, so

Lanae: Yeah, rape, yet so far, so. It has not been rapey enough. We definitely need more. God.

Summer: No, definitely hasn’t been rapey enough

Ginger: Oh lawdie. So what did you guys, what did you guys think?

Lanae: I thought it was good!

Summer: I liked it a lot

Lanae: I th, did you th, did it meet your expectations, Summer?

Summer: Yes. I feel, this is gonna sound bad, but (laughing) I kept waiting for the episode to be over

Lanae: What?!

Summer: It was so long!

Lanae: It was long

Summer: That, there were several moments where they could have ended the episode, I felt. It was kind of like the Lord of Rings, Lord of the Rings ending where they had three different endings

Lanae: Oh, yeah yeah yeah. When I watched those movies I’m definitely like, “What? It’s not over? It’s still going? How is this not done yet?”

Summer: It’s like, “How is it not over?” And it, and that makes me sound like I’m ungrateful…

Lanae: Yeah, you are. You are ungrateful

Summer: ...that I didn’t enjoy it. I did enjoy it. But I felt, I, I, there were just several moments where I thought this was, “This is the end, this is going to be the end,” and then I’m like, “Nope, still going.” Where I’m like, “How far is this, how far is this episode gonna go?” Like

Lanae: When that, when, you know, it ain’t over until someone gets threatened to be raped (laughs)

Summer: I guess now I know what I was waiting for.

Lanae: Now you know

Ginger: If you don’t know, now you know

Lanae: Ah. Lord.

Ginger: Well, so thank you for joining us, Miss Lanae

Lanae: You’re very welcome. Thanks for having me!

Ginger: That was uh, that was the print shop

Lanae: What was your favorite part, Ginger?

Ginger: Okay, I’m gonna start that by saying my favorite part of the previous episode was her, well, okay, her coming out of the thing, the puddle, I loved that. And then her going up and seeing him. I think my favorite part, and, to echo that, my favorite part of this episode was when he, at the very beginning, or almost very beginning when he was looking down at the papers and all we see is what he’s seeing and then we hear her voice. I think that was my favorite part

Lanae: Yeah, that was a good moment.

Summer: My favorite part uh, was when they run into Fergus on the street and the reunion of that

Ginger: Ah, I love it, I love it (singing) I love it, I love it. Not it, (singing) Him. Where he goes I’ll follow. Sorry

Summer: Cause the other, the other is expected, you now, it, we lead into it, so we saw it a little bit last week so we know that their reunion was happening but, seeing the, her with Fergus

Lanae: Okay, so my favorite part is when they smash faces when they first start having sex. Seriously, I think that was my favorite part. It was like

Summer: You’re smashing the wrong end, people

Lanae: It was like, super real. And it was like, so relatable I was just like, “Oh my god.”

Ginger: And with that, thank you, as always, so much for listening. We’re very happy that you are sharing um, kind of a peek over our shoulders of, into our conversation about the print shop episode and it’s something that from day one of finding out in 2013 that there was gonna be a show and only hoping and praying and wishing that we might get this far.

Summer: That was episode 306, “A. Malcolm.” Join us next week when we discuss chapter 307 entitled, “Creme de Menthe.”

Lanae: Mm.

Summer: I don’t think anyone has ever said yummy (laughs)...

Lanae: I’m just kidding

Summer: ...when someone says creme de menthe

Lanae: In hot chocolate

Ginger: Oh, yeah. Thank you, as always, so much for listening, and for joining us on this very special episode of the Outlander podcast. We look forward to our next episode.

Transcribed 11/15/17 by Shelsy J.